Where can we find Johnson-Breen records and history, Killarney?

Discussion in 'County Kerry' started by Philippa, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    It looks as though my cousin might be visiting Ireland at some time during the next 12-18 months. She’s not completely enamoured (which I just can NOT understand) and I’m working on that but it’s hard from such a great distance – she lives in the US.

    To help get her more positively inclined I’d like to be able say “you should be able to find…..” and tickle her curiosity about her paternal grandmother’s origins. We share maternal genealogy but she knows little about her father’s mother and her beginnings.

    I know Irish genealogy is difficult from a distance and I know many tons of records have been destroyed in various periods of civil unrest, but are there records readily accessible on site for research in Killarney, Kerry?

    What I think I know is that her grandmother, Mollie, was born in 1903 in Killarney. (She gave that information when she enlisted in the WRAAF in 1941 and her service record has been digitized so is available for download). From her marriage certificate (which my cousin quotes) her parents were Charles Johnson (a policeman) and Minnie Breen. I have asked for a copy or at least a re-transcription of the certificate to see if anything else of value is recorded.

    Mollie was married in Queensland, Australia in 1920 and widowed in 1925 but we don’t know when she came out from Ireland. We know about her life in Australia, so it's only the Irish part that is important at this point.

    Can someone advise, please, on where my cousin should look for more information about Mollie's family, what she could expect to find under normal circumstances, and what other information she would have to have on hand to help with her searches?

    I really wish I was making this enquiry on my own behalf, but I suppose I can learn to live in the shadow of my cousin’s good fortune!! Yet another chance to wear so becomingly my cloak of martyrdom!!! :(
     
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  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Hi Philippa,

    I wonder if this book would be of help as a starting point?
     
  3. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Thanks, Jan. I'll ask. I have no idea if she's willing to spend money or not, but it's worth passing on.

    My lovely cousin has great reservations about this journey because of rather unfortunate circumstances which left her grandmother in a less than favourable light. I think a lot of the story is unknown or at least untold and that her marriage at 17, the birth of her first child at 18 and her being widowed and giving birth to a daughter in the same year at age 21-22 might explain what happened later. Most of that was not in her son's best interests as it turned out but I'd like to think her motives were good and she did the best she could, given her age. My relationship with my only known grandmother and her incredible goodness and niceness make it hard for me to understand other situations even though I try.
     
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  4. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Aww, poor Philippa:({-(^^)-}
     
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  5. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Suits me, don't you think? :D
     
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  6. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    A little more that's just arrived.

    My cousin has just sent me copies of her grandparents' marriage certificate and their daughter's birth certificate. Seems Mollie told a little porky when she enlisted, because her age on both certificates is 10 years greater than I thought, making her birth year 1893. I did wonder when I saw her details but gave her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe there was an upper age limit for women joining the WRAAF auxiliary at the time? I haven't checked but I guess it's not all that important anyway. Fact is she fibbed and that's all we really need to know.

    That sort of muffs my kind thoughts about her youth, immaturity and inability to cope with things. Instead of being an incredibly young lady of 21 seems she must have been quite a bit more mature at 31.

    The daughter's birth certificate shows Mollie's place of birth as Killarney, Kerry. However the marriage certificate says "Dunlea Kenny, Ireland". Now the "Kenny" should probably read "Kerry" but the Dunlea has thrown me right off track. The only references I can find to Dunlea come up as surnames, none as a place, and I'm stumped. Why do the rellies do this to us???? :rolleyes:

    Anyway, cousin seems to be moving in something approaching the right direction and I've sent her details of the book Jan mentioned as well as links to a couple of Kerry research sites. Will be interesting to see how (if) she progresses!!

    I really don't want to do the research for her, nor do I want anyone here to start chasing her family. She was thrilled and amazed at what I managed to uncover about our mothers' family and I'd like her to experience that same WOO HOO feeling which is so hard to describe.

    However, if anyone has any more ideas on the subject of Dunlea or where to look for "stuff" I'll be more than happy to hear them and will pass them on post haste!!
    :)
     
  7. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Ballydunlea, Tralee, County Kerry?
     
  8. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    www
    census.nationalarchives.ie/feedback/1901/Kerry/Tralee/Ballydunlea/1431287/
    House 8 Ballydunlea, Tralee, Kerry, Census 1901
    Breen;
    Jeremiah 16
    Maria 21
    Thomas 50
    Michael 11
    Catherine 14
    Peter 13
    Julia 9
    Thomas 6
    Nellie 18
     
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  9. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    That could be the mother's family AM, with Minnie, being married, missing (THANK YOU!!). Cousin Jenny doesn't know much about them, e.g. when Minnie married Charles Johnson, but since Mollie was born in 1893 (date now seems pretty certain from the two certificates) it was more than likely well before 1901.

    Distance between Ballydunlea and Killarney is only about 25km, so distinctly possible.

    Will pass this little gem on when I email tonight.

    ():-)
     
  10. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    You're more than welcome
    BUT have a look at this
    www
    lyreacrompane.com/Archive.htm
    A family reunion of Breen's with photos of the Breen Homestead/cottage at Ballydunlea
     
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  11. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    That's fabulous, AM. I tell you what, if all of this doesn't make Jenny impatient to get to Ireland I'll just have to shake her until her teeth rattle!!!!
     
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  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Make sure they are well glued in then:)
    I'm a bit jealous, been itching to keep going! However I won't :(
     
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  13. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Went to this link, AM, and found the image but didn't know where to go from there. I was trying to find out if there was a street mentioned. Never done this sort of stuff so can you point me in the right direction please?
     
  14. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I only found it by entering 'breen + ballydunlea' and that is what came up.
    There is another on the same google page in house number 4 Ballydunlea in 1911 census with just 4 of the Breen sisters and brothers, maybe they moved house by then. It may not be the family you are after but is a start I guess.
    Maybe there was no street name as such but just numbered houses in the village.
    There is also a bit of enquiry of the family on Ancestry message board.
    Father Thomas Breen and mother Mary Griffith married 1874, Camp, Curaduft, Tralee.
    As for going in the right direction, best ask someone with more experience. I just dig around until something pops up that might make sense :rolleyes:
     
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Looking again at that census it seems that there are either streets or what is referred to as 'townland'. Ballydunlea was referred to as 'townland'.
    Each house had a number something like our 'lot' number. I surmise.:rolleyes:
    So, number 8 Ballydunlea rather than say, number 8 Smith Street!
     
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  16. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    You really are a lovely person, AM. Thank you for all you've done, I really do appreciate it. I'm trying to put this together in a way that will tickle Jenny's fancy and make her really want to head to Ireland to see things for herself.

    I'll let you know how I get on!!

    Of course I really have to keep in mind that old saying about horses and water, don't I?

    Goodnight all.
     
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  17. she04

    she04 Active Member

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    On your cousins visit, she might have better luck searching the 1900 plus records at the churches. They request and give all information they have for a small fee (usually £5 per record). They aren't allowed to look at records themselves if Church of Ireland, but a lot of catholic churches show you original records, some do not, it depends on how friendly the parish priest is. Some church records prior to 1900 are available at the church, but most churches may have been sent to Dublin, as some churches do not have the space to store old records. If Dublin have the records, they have been damaged in fires and if any record survive even a partial of the record it will be at Dublin only x x
     
  18. Philippa

    Philippa Always a lady.

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    Thanks, Sheelagh. It's funny but I haven't heard another peep about the proposed visit, other than a quick comment, must be close to a year ago now, that it had been put back a bit. I must chase her up and find out what's going on. I'll pass your information on to reluctant cousin when I manage to wake her up!! XX
     
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  19. Clarry's Daughter

    Clarry's Daughter New Member

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    I am the cousin whose forebears Philippa has been diligently researching, and my trip to Ireland is finally almost a reality. First of all, thank you all for the information you've posted. We'll only be in the Killarney/Ballydunlea area for a couple of days, but it would really be something to make contact with any family of my grandmother Mary (Mollie) Johnson who might still be in the area. I know little about Mollie other than her parents were Charles Johnson, a policeman, and Minnie Breen, and she was born in 1893. She moved to Australia some time around 1911 and married my grandfather Arthur Choice in 1920. I looked the Breen photos on the Lyreacrompane site that Archie's Mum found and I'm going to try to locate Kay O'Leary who features prominently in those references. With a name like O'Leary it should be a piece of cake to find her, right :)? But thanks again to all of you for all your research, and to cousin Philippa who truly has the gift of the gab!
     
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  20. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     

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