Where in Cumberland?

Discussion in 'Cumberland' started by spison, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    My ancestor, James Jones, was born in Cumberland in about 1810. James and Mary Taylor married in Daresbury, Lancashire, in February 1827. James died in Warrington in 1878. He only specified a birth location on the 1871 Census when he was an engine driver living at the Howley Tannery in Poulton with Fearnhead (RG10 Piece 3909 Folio 55 p.28). I can't read it even though the handwriting on the page is quite good. I believe that it is some kind of abbreviation but what do I know! (Clearly not much about Cumberland)! I have looked at the Genuki Gazeteer. I have googled. Online trees identify a location but I can't see how they get it from what was written. They have no ancestry for him.

    What is the word after Cumberland and where is this place?

    JONES, James 1871 detail.JPG

    Any ideas gratefully accepted.
    Thanks
    Jane
     
  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    For what it's worth, Family Search has it as Fort C.
    Googling found Fort Cumberland in Portsmouth............:headbang:
     
  3. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Just had a quick look in between thunderous activities. An online tree has his birth in Forth, Cumberland 1809. not upheld by sources quoted -1851 & 1861 censuses. Googling found it only near Portsmouth & in Canada & USA.
     
  4. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    I tend agree with AM.
     
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  5. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    It looks like 'Fort C'.

    I'm stumped too. There is a farmstead called Fort Putnam at Greystoke, but that doesn't seem likely somehow. Too specific.
     
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  6. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    Well at least we all have interpreted the writing the same way but ...
    :confused: Eek!
    Yep! All the trees for this couple have Forth (I think they copied) but it doesn't look like Forth to me. And if it is I can find nothing similar to Forth in Cumberland.
    Oh dear!
    Jane
     
  7. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I first read it as HostC. But then the last letter looks nothing like the 'C' in Cumberland.....Host County is what was in my head. Not sure it starts with an 'F' either. In other words, I have no idea.:(
    I came across Holme Culthram and thought it might be an abbreviation of some kind for that. Still no idea :(
     
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  8. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    This may be a total flight of fancy, Jane, but given that Fort Cumberland could be the birthplace of your James JONES and that it is in Portsea Island, there is a baptism at Portsea St Mary on 28 August 1808 for a James son of Benjamin & Sarah JONES. One of the witnesses at the marriage of James & Mary TAYLOR was a John JONES and there is also a baptism at Portsea on 13 June 1802 for a John son of Benjamin & Sarah JONES. I also note that on the 1851 census of Warrington, James & Mary's second son was named Benjamin. Could your James's father have had a naval connection? Trouble is, James JONES is a very common name and the witness John JONES may not have been related to your James at all!! Clutching at straws a bit here, I think.

    Janet
     
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  9. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I am with the Fort C camp:). Looking at the whole census page the 'F' and 'C' are consistent with other words on the page.
    Like Janet I found the bap of in Portsea and wondered if it could be a possibility, but did not explore the naming pattern of James' children, which do give it some credence.
     
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  10. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Hubby's grandma was from there. I've never seen it abbreviated. o_O
     
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  11. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Ah yes, that was my immediate thought.

    I think the census enumerator chappy had never heard of 'Fort C'/'Fort Cumberland' either, and made an error, deciding it must be somewhere in Cumberland. :sceptical:
     
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  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Well I would have no clue. I was just trying to come up with something that looked like it might fit. But I think I will go with Fort Cumberland although initially I was looking for somewhere in Cumberland not Portsmouth. Who'd have thought.
     
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  13. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Gotta watch this thread, I was rudely booted off air after posting my little bit!
    Back now as of 40 or so minutes ago. I was cocooned in my lovely bed but had to come check clocks & make sure this lovely machine was okay.
    G' night folks.
     
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  14. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Looking at his place of birth in 1871 again more closely, I am sure the first word is Fort. The "F" is written in exactly the same way as the "F" in Flintshire. I cannot for the life of me think what the next letter is unless it is a "C" but it is certainly not exactly the same as his other "C"s. It more closely resembles the first letter of the place name in the record of James BUCKLAND on the same page, which is in Oxfordshire, but I cannot work out what that place name is either, as it does not seem to correspond with any Oxfordshire parishes according to Genuki!!!

    I also cannot find a baptism for James in Cumberland c1810 on any of the online sites - has anyone else found a likely baptism?

    Janet
     
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  15. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    It's a strange one.

    Still hunting for a baptism, Janet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  16. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Oakley, Oxfordshire.
     
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  17. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    OK. I like your thinking. I did wonder whether it may have been mis-heard by the enumerator or whether he mis-transcribed something that was written or misunderstood. While the 'F' is the same as in Flintshire further down the page, the pronunciation of FortC and PortC are very similar so I'm not sure that this is a flight of fancy Janet. I do admit that I am struggling with the geography at present though.

    James and Mary's children were Catherine (after Mary's mother, d. 1834), then James (this also was the name of Mary's father), then Benjamin, another Catherine who survived (with Mary's family in 1841 and 1851), then George (my ancestor), Thomas, Peter, John and finally Sarah (1850 - 1851). They only had the two daughters as far as I have discovered. Most trees haven't found either Catherine but she has her own trees.
    Looking further
    (Especially maps and trying to understand potential naval connections!)
    Jane
     
  18. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    I have hunted often over the years but nothing was coming up for any baptisms in Cumberland. I was having so little success I thought that I was losing my touch. At least I have other leads to follow now. Even if they do end up as dead ends at least I'm not going nowhere.

    Off to bed. I will think better after a sleep.

    Thanks for all these good suggestions. I'm feeling a little more hopeful. Being a Jones is such a chore at times.
    Jane
     
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  19. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    The enumerator has written some odd things. Is there a 'High' in Northamptonshire? He's given up with the place in Flintshire, scribbled it out and written 'Wales'. And I'm not sure I've heard of the placename underneath that. :sceptical:
     
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  20. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Higham Ferrers
     
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