Where was my Edward Jones born in Denbighshire?

Discussion in 'Denbighshire' started by busyglen, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. busyglen

    busyglen Well-Known Member

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    I know that even before I started to post this, that there is no likelyhood that someone can give me an answer, but hey, one never knows if an actual descendant is looking in. :(

    As my friend AnnB knows, I have been looking for this information for quite a number of years, and revive it now and again in the hopes that someone may have the answer! I have info from the Wedding at Hackney Church of Edward Jones and Eliza Bermingham on 8th Aug. 1830, so I know he had moved from his place of birth (I assume) which has always been given on Census as Denbigh, or Denbighshire. He probably moved to England to do his apprenticeship, but that is just a guess.

    He was shown on the various Census as a Scale Maker, or Master Scale Maker.

    He had several children, the first being Thomas who also became a Scale & Weights maker. He also had Eliza, Maria, and Elizabeth.

    I have followed him and Eliza up to their deaths, but can't get beyond record of an Edward Jones born in Denbighshire born in Ruabon? Denbighshire. There are so many (of course there would be for Jones) so I don't know if there is anything else I can look for in Wales?

    Any ideas folks?
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Hi Glenys,

    According to the censuses, roughly when was Edward Jones born, please? :)
     
  3. gillyflower

    gillyflower Always caring about others

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    I am sorry busyglen this isn't going to help your quest at all - but I know just how you feel! I too occasionally try to find a bit more about my Kelly ancestors - you have guessed I am sure, they come from Ireland.:confused::(
     
  4. busyglen

    busyglen Well-Known Member

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    So sorry, I got called away before I had time to put the date on, and was concerned that I would lose the post. :(

    On the 1841 Census it shows him as aged 36 so born around 1805. On the 1851 it shows him aged 47.

    He died on 20.8.1864 and age shown as 60.
     
  5. busyglen

    busyglen Well-Known Member

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    Yes I do understand....I am not alone in this. I leave it for a year or so and try again, just in case someone, somewhere is related and looking for answers as well. :cool: I hope you have some luck soon. :)
     
  6. busyglen

    busyglen Well-Known Member

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    On family search IGI, I found a record of Husband Edward Jones, Wife Elizabeth, and birth of Edward Jones on 30th May 1805 Bo, Ruabon, Denbigh, Wales. I found several others, but this seems the nearest so far. I don't really know how to proceed with this info to see if I can find anything else that might give me a clue.

    The only thing that stands out is that the Father is Edward, and the mother Elizabeth. He named one of his children Elizabeth, and another Eliza.
     
  7. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    I've seen the censuses and they don't help much do they. BTW I see that Ruabon is also known as "Rhiwabon … a large village about half way between Wrexham and Llangollen." (Wikipedia). There must be quite a good chance this is him - certainly well worth following up.
     
  8. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    FMP has Denbighshire transcripts & original images of parish registers for the period in which you are interested. The one you quote is in fact son of Evan and Elizabeth. They appear to live in Bedwlwyn.
     
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  9. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Sorry, I forgot to say that FMP lists 20 baptisms for Edward Jones in Denbighshire in 1805 :(
     
  10. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    How can I put this? A very small investment in FMP credits would not be wasted. Unfortunately you have to pay to get to the transcript or image.
     
  11. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    I have chickened out of looking for Joneses in Wales and instead have been trying (so far without success) to find an apprenticeship record for Edward.

    I have a copy of the 1828-9 Pigot's directory for London, which lists around 40 or 50 scale makers. I've been picking some of the most unusually named ones to see if I can find them in Ancestry's collection of Freedom of the City of London admission papers in the hope that a pattern might emerge as to which livery company/companies they belonged to.

    Abraham Poupard was apprenticed to George Everitt, Citizen and Blacksmith, in 1792 and then in John Hardcastle was apprenticed to Abraham Poupard of Cannon Street Road, scalebeammaker and Citizen and Blacksmith in 1828

    Robert Wenborn was apprenticed to Susannah Astill, Citizen and Blacksmith, in 1795, and made free by servitude of the Worshipful Company of Blacksmiths 1819

    Richard Bastick was apprenticed to Richard Vandome, Citizen and Blacksmith, in 1821 (a Rd Vandome and a Bastick & Driver appear in list of scalemakers in the directory)

    I need to find more of the people on the list to find out if the Company of Blacksmiths keeps cropping up. If it does, then perhaps their records could be a place to look for more about Edward Jones.

    Must go to bed now though.

    P.S. did notice that one of the scale makers in that directory was called Samuel Pearce, of 46 Fuller Street, Shoreditch. Is it a coincidence that a Richard Pearce married on the same day as Edward Jones and was a witness at his wedding?
     
  12. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Had to check some more . . .

    The 1828-9 list of scale makers has two entries for 'Sl Shury'
    3 September 1818. Samuel Shury son of Samuel Shury Citizen and Blacksmith made free by Patrimony. Old Bethlem Scalebeammaker.

    Also in the directory is a William Fage . . . and a William Fage was apprenticed to George Everitt, Citizen and Blacksmith, 1791

    And finally for tonight, the directory has Mary De Grave and Son, and an Edward Abraham De Grave son of Charles De Grave late Deceased was apprenticed to Mary De Grave widow of said Charles De Grave, Citizen and Blacksmith, 1806

    So that's three more scalemakers with connections to the Worshipful Company of Blacksmiths.
     
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  13. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I missed all this yesterday evening Glen, but had been wondering when the Joneses would rear their heads again :rolleyes:

    Jane's idea of following the scale maker's trail looks promising. Some time back I did have a search through the papers to see if I could find anything which might help, but didn't have any luck. I'll have another go later on. Now that we have left them alone for quite a while, maybe they will come out of hiding this time :)

    love
    Ann xx
     
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  14. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    The London Metropolitan Archives catalogue has details of records of the Worshipful Company of Blacksmiths. The ones classified as 'membership records' might be the ones to go for first. These ones seem to cover the right date ranges:

    Freedom Admission Registers
    Ref. CLC/L/BD/C/003
    Date: 1728-1974

    Register of Apprentice Bindings
    Ref: CLC/L/BD/C/006/MS02889/002
    Date: 1747-1856

    Quarterage Books
    Ref: CLC/L/BD/C/008
    Date: 1824-1844

    There are also many volumes of 'court records' including minute books.

    I have not been able to discover whether these records are at LMA or still at the Guildhall Library. The AIM25 description suggests the latter but may be out of date:

    http://www.
    aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=14127&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=
     
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  15. Dee Dee

    Dee Dee Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is always worth checking every so often. It has happened for me several times.
    I used to think there was no interest in any of my family but eventually found a cousin in Australia and another who lives "just down the road".
    Likewise my husband's who came from Ireland- although the contact there turned out to be helpful but quite "odd".
     
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  16. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    (Still in London, not Denbighshire)

    busyglen, have you identified the various people who crop up as witnesses at the Jones weddings in London?

    I've found marriages for three of Edward's daughters, all at Chelsea St Luke. Haven't copied all details from the registers, just looking at who witnessed what:

    Eliza Jones (22) (made her mark) married Henry Smith, labourer, 1862
    witnesses: James S. Sherrell and Hannah Jones (signed)

    Elizabeth Jones (19) (made her mark) married Alfred Jarvis 1864
    witnesses: James S. Sherrell and Ann Jones (made her mark)

    Maria Jones (24) (made her mark) married Richard Walker, mason, 1865
    witnesses: James S. Sherrell and Eliza Smith (made her mark)

    Hannah Jones, the witness in 1862, could be the wife of Thomas Jones (also a scale maker: Edward's son?) (they were living next to Edward and family on the 1861 census, RG 9/32, f.30, p.11). Who is Ann Jones who witnessed the 1864 marriage? And who is the James S. Sherrell who witnessed all three?
     
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  17. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Well, he was certainly a Jack of all trades.....
    1851 HO107/1473 folio 410 page 1
    2 Blenheim Terrace, Chelsea
    James S. Sherrell aged 34 born London - Hairdresser and Bird Preserver

    1871 RG10/5 folio 12 page 17
    64 Richmond Road, Paddington
    James S Sherrell - Scripture Reader

    Ann :D
     
  18. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    I now have visions of Lark's tongues in Aspic.....:eek:

    However.....

    Perhaps his occupation was more involved with the church and so he was a regular witness of weddings there.
     
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  19. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    I've had a look through some other nearby pages of the Chelsea St Luke register and he does pop up quite often as a witness, so I think he must have been part of the furniture.

    Sorry for the false alarm.
     
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  20. busyglen

    busyglen Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for all your efforts, much appreciated.
    I'll answer this first as it might help in the eliminations. Sorry not been able to get on the pc earlier.
    Children of Edward & Eliza.
    Eliza Jones was a daughter
    also Elizabeth Jones, married *Alfred Jarvis, my direct line of Jarvis.
    Maria Jones, daughter, married Richard Walker.
    and the eldest was a son Thomas Jones, who married Hannah. He was also a scale & weights maker like his father Edward.

    I don't know who James S. Sherrell is, and Ann Jones, (I think) links with Alfred Jarvis's side. I must look that up. So many Jones!!

    Will look at the other posts now, and try and answer the other questions.
     

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