Which one?

Discussion in 'WWII (1939 - 1945)' started by Chimp, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    On our cenotaph for WW2 soldiers who fell we have P W Samuels.

    Entering P W Samuels into CWGC you only get 2 hits.
    Code:
    https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?initial=p%2Bw&lastName=samuels&war=2
    How on earth do I distinguish which one he is?

    Any ideas?
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    They both have their parents named. See if you can find them in the 1939 Register and if their address gives any clues. One might be in the locale and the other hundreds of miles away. :)

    Fingers crossed ;)
     
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  3. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Well Peter William Samuels has 2 probates.
    upload_2018-9-25_16-29-36.png
    upload_2018-9-25_16-29-52.png

    Philip William Samuels I can't find one for.
     
  4. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    I'm not quite sure what relationships those entries indicate, but Henry J Samuels appears to have married Elsie S Cook in the Croydon district in Jun qtr 1911 (from FreeBMD).

    FreeBMD also shows a birth of Peter W Samuels (mmn Cook) in Croydon in Jun qtr 1922.

    I think I may have mentioned here before that someone in my family was recorded on a WW1 cenotaph in the place he lived when he enlisted, not where he originally came from, so if the same applied in WW2, then on the basis of the address in the probate index, this Peter may not be the one you have in Knighton.
     
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  5. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Thanks Arthur.

    I can find no mention anywhere of a P W Samuels in Knighton.
     
  6. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    There is only one Samuels family on the 1939 reg that comes up in Knighton
    Edith (b1877) and Evan (b1876) with one redacted entry.
     
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  7. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    And just to be awkward neither of those names are mentioned as parents to either P W Samuels :rolleyes:
     
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  8. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Extended family perhaps? I know a long shot:nailbiting:
     
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  9. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Never thought of that. Maybe Evan was an uncle.
     
  10. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Philip William was born c1894, so William and Pheobe should be on the 1911 census with him.
    I can find zilch, no birth, no marriage for William and Pheobe no sign in 1939
    all very odd (unless he was Scottish/Irish etc)
     
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  11. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    Ancestry have several entries for Philip William Samuels' death. One gives additional info - born British Guiana, address etc and Next of Kin, which looks to me like a cousin possibly living in South Africa.

    And FMP have a picture of him in their records.


    Oh heck, hope I'm not getting in a muddle here :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
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  12. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    If Philip William Samuels was from British Guiana then ke's unlikely to be in Englend/Wales (maybe)

    Peter William Samuels probate was first in London but was later changed to Llandudno North Wales....

    could this be a clue?
     
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  13. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    Confused now - the 23 year old (Peter William) was a Sgt. The war memorial in Knighton say Private. Does that mean he was a private or the info is private? I took it as the former - that he was a Private in the army.

    Sorry, the transcription on line says the above.
     
  14. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Where have you found this?
     
  15. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    I just did a search on the internet for the war memorial in Knighton

    Code:
    http://www. roll-of-honour.com/Radnorshire/Knighton.html
    Think they ask for donations - can't remember how to make it non-clicky or whatever it is called - sorry. (Done. ;) )
     
  16. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Ah yeah, Roll of Honour.....trouble is they don't know for sure :oops:

    They are up to their ears in research at the moment and say they don't have any information on him.

    I sent them the information for H Jones the only one they don't have anything for on the WW1 list about a month ago. They don't know when they will have time to add it.
     
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  17. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Peter William Samuels went to Shoreham College - they have an entry for him on their Roll of Honour
    Code:
    https://www.shorehamcollege.co.uk/osa/roll-of-honour/roll-of-honour-1939-1945/roll-of-honour-ww2/377-sergeant-peter-william-samuels
    .....but I’m afraid it doesn’t help :(
     
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  18. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    Afraid not - the Principal Probate Registry moved to Llandudno at some point during WW2, so probates that would otherwise have been granted in London are listed as being granted in Llandudno instead.
     
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  19. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Handy to know. Thanks, @arthurk :)
     
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  20. arthurk

    arthurk Well-Known Member

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    This may be a red herring, as it's not 100% consistent with other things, but there are 6 children with the surname Samuel (no 's') born in the Knighton district between 1897 and 1905. One of them is Philip John - Dec qtr 1900, mmn Bowen.

    And a bit further away, there's a Philip William Lloyd Samuel born Merthyr Tydfil Dec qtr 1910, mmn Morgans.

    Searching FreeBMD for Phil* Samu* brings up quite a few possibilities, but those were the only two that matched either middle name or location. Sadly not both.
     
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