Who is a Clay and who is a Hadley? - darned if I know!

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by Murfomurf, May 8, 2019.

  1. Murfomurf

    Murfomurf Active Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    226
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    In FreeBMD we have this marriage:
    Marriages Dec 1875

    DONE Thomas Wolverhampton 6b 801
    HADLEY Ellen Clay Wolverhampton 6b 801

    The children, according to the various Censuses are:
    Elizabeth, Horace, Benjamin, Frederick and Louisa.

    The children's registrations with the GRO are:
    GRO DONE, ELIZABETH HADLEY GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 682
    GRO DONE, HORACE HADLEY GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 615
    GRO DONE, BENJAMIN HADLEY GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 653
    GRO DONE, FREDERICK HADLEY GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 604
    GRO DONE, LOUISA CLAY GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 598

    Note that Louisa has mmn as Clay, not Hadley.

    I thought Ellen Clay Hadley might have been previously married to a Mr Clay but had registered most of the children under her widow name, Hadley. BUT there is no marriage of an Ellen Clay to a Mr Hadley.

    So I looked for Ellen Hadleys with middle name Clay - none I could locate, but there are stacks of Ellen Hadleys with no way to narrow them down as no knowledge of Ellen C Hadley's mmn.

    I DID come across a John Clay who appeared to have married a Hadley who may have produced an Ellen Clay:
    FreeBMD
    Marriages Jun 1844
    CLAY John Aston 16 283
    Hadley Maria Rosanna Aston 16 283
    But Maria married a Thomas Terry instead. What a pest!

    A John Clay married an Ann Hadley in 1834 according to FamilySeach:
    23 December 1834
    Wolverhampton, Stafford, England; John Clay, Ann Hadley; so they are good candidates for owning an Ellen Clay. But none of the GRO Ellen Clays have mmn Hadley and the ones in FreeBMD have no mmn anyway.

    Have I gone blind, demented, both or am I living in an alternate universe?
     
  2. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,826
    Likes Received:
    25,003
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    I wonder if Louisa’s middle name was Clay and for some reason the Hadley was omiited and Clay entered as surname accidentally.
    Did Louisa marry and if so under Hadley or Clay?
     
  3. Murfomurf

    Murfomurf Active Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    226
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Louisa is a DONE by surname- I don't think it's worth looking for her marriage as a Clay or Hadley. I thought Ellen Clay's mmn was Hadley and when confronted with the forms she put her mother's maiden name (Hadley) rather than her OWN (Clay). With the last child she got it right??
     
  4. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    17,882
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Welcome to my world.... ;)

    I was having a rummage in the 1871 census for an Ellen born in Wednesfield about 1854. Check out piece 2947, folio 27, page 16

    In the household are:

    John CLAY, Bricklayer, age 67, widower, b 1804 Church Eaton, Staffs
    Ellen CLAY, Daughter aged 16, b 1855 Wednesfield
    Jane Hadley GROSVENOR, unmarried, Housekeeper aged 37, b 1834 Wednesfield

    I wonder if there is a connection there.... :sceptical:

    (My great grandmother was born before her parents were married. On her children's birth registrations she has a mixture of her mother's surname, under which her own birth was registered, and her father's surname, which she adopted once her parents wed - if you follow me...) :headbang:
     
    Dogsday likes this.
  5. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

    Offline
    Messages:
    6,826
    Likes Received:
    25,003
    Location:
    Orange, NSW Australia. The Colour City.
    :oops: read it wrong
     
  6. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    17,882
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Ooh!

    1861 census (piece 2002, folio 20, page 3) has the above plus
    Mary Ann CLAY, daughter, aged 14, b 1847 Wednesfield
    Elizabeth CLAY, daughter, aged 3, b 1858 Wednesfield
    Martha HAMILTON, Granddaughter, aged 2, b 1859 Pelsall, Staffordshire

    but there is no birth registration for an Ellen CLAY. However, there is a birth registration for Ellen HADLEY (1854 December quarter, Wolverhampton Volume 6B Page 372) with no mother's maiden name (thus presumed to be HADLEY).

    There is also a birth registration in the December quarter of 1860 for an Elizabeth HADLEY (no MMN) which, although a tad late, could well be the Elizabeth mentioned above.

    By the way, Mary Ann CLAY above had her birth registered under the name of CLAY but with the MMN of HADLEY.

    Going back further to 1851 (Piece 2020, folio 128, page 34) John has a wife, Ann, and some more children. Ann was born about 1811 and there is a corresponding death for an Ann CLAY in the June quarter that year of the correct age (Wolverhampton volume 17, page 263)

    There is the marriage that took place between John CLAY and Ann HADLEY on 23rd December 1834 at St Peter's, Wolverhampton that looks to be a good bet.

    upload_2019-5-8_9-37-32.png

    Make of this little lot as you will but I reckon that the answer could be in there.... somewhere.... :reading:
     
    Dogsday and AnnB like this.
  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    17,882
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Fancy some more speculation? ;)

    There is a Jane HADLEY who was baptised 6th April 1834 at St Peter Wolverhampton to Susanna HADLEY - no father listed.

    However....

    There is a marriage that took place on 18th June 1846 at St Peter, Wolverhampton between a Susan(na) HADLEY and....... Thomas GROSVENOR! Ta-dah! :D

    upload_2019-5-8_10-24-35.png

    That could explain the mystery of the CLAY/HADLEY/GROSVENOR surname. ;)
     
    Dogsday likes this.
  8. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    I did a search on Ancestry for Thomas DONE with a marriage in 1875 and a spouse named Ellen.

    The marriage is on their England, Select Marriages, 1858-1973.

    On the entry, when you click on Ellen Clay HADLEY, it gives Thomas as the spouse and Ellen's father as John CLAY.

    The marriage was on 4 October 1875 at St. Leonard's, Bilston, Stafford
     
    Dogsday and Daft Bat like this.
  9. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    Found the marriage on FMP

    thomas done marriage 1875.jpg

    Sorry, don't know how to make them the size that Jan did.
     
    Ma-dotcom, Dogsday and Daft Bat like this.
  10. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    17,882
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    The occupation of her father John (Builder) also ties in with him being a Bricklayer in the censuses. :)
     
    Dogsday and Jellylegs like this.
  11. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    Have looked for a baptism for Ellen, but can't find one at the moment.

    Ah, found it under CLAY

    Ellen Clay baptism.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
    Ma-dotcom, Dogsday and Daft Bat like this.
  12. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

    Online
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    17,882
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England.
    Susanna HADLEY (mother of Jane Hadley GROSVENOR) was baptised on 12th July 1807 to parents Richard and Mary at St Thomas', Wednesfield

    Ann HADLEY (who was married to John CLAY) was baptised 19th January 1812 to parents.... Richard and Mary at St Thomas', Wednesfield.

    So, to square off the circle, it looks like Susanna's daughter Jane was the mother of John CLAY's later children after his wife Ann - who was Jane's Aunt - had died.
     
  13. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    Looks like John and Jane married

    John Clay and Jane Grosvenor Hadley 1874.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
    Ma-dotcom, Dogsday and Daft Bat like this.
  14. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
  15. Murfomurf

    Murfomurf Active Member

    Offline
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    226
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Aha! That seems to roughly hang together! I hadn't seen Susannah but a Jane came in somewhere after Ann Clay (nee Hadley) died and I thought she could be the mother of Elizabeth Ann and Mary Jane/Ann Clay- depending on which Census. They made a terrible mess for me as I'm related to both Dones and Hadleys! Thanks Jellylegs, Daft Bat and Archie's Mum for your dedicated delving.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice