Who was John Thomas Davies ?

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by Chimp, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Not much to go on.

    John married Jane Tomkiss on 16 Dec 1907 in Shropshire.

    1911 Census For England & Wales
    2 Haughmond View Spring Gardens Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury St Mary, Shropshire.

    John Thomas Davies, Husband, 29, 1882, Cowman On Farm, Wigan Lanshire
    Jane Davies, Wife, 24, 1887, Shrewsbury Shropshire
    John Henry, Davies, 3, 1908, Shrewsbury Shropshire
    Charlotte Elizabeth Davies, Daughter, 2, 1909, Shrewsbury Shropshire

    I'm not 100% sure that he was born in Wigan, but the census says he was.

    1939
    2 Worlds End, Wellington, Shropshire.

    John T Davies, 06 May 1881, Agricultural Work, Married
    Jane Davies, 23 Oct 1887, Female, Domestic Duties Unpaid, Married
    William J Davies, 17 Jul 1918, Farm Labourer, Single
    One redacted record
    Arthur T Davies, 26 Jan 1927, At School (Adopter), Single

    I'm having trouble finding him on any other census.

    If it means I get the marriage certificate, I will, but all that would give me is the place he was living at the time of marriage and his father's name. I thought I'd ask here first.

    Edited to correct wifes maiden name.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    I had a look on FreeBMD for a birth of around 1881/2 and found John Thomas DAVIES, March quarter 1881, Wigan, 8c, 134. The GRO gives his mmn as SHARROCK.

    Found a marriage of DAVIES and SHARROCK naming William and Ellen as the interested parties, Wigan, March quarter 1881 ;) 8c,79.

    Checked the 1881 census as JT should have just snuck in and found a William DAVIES aged 23, wife Ellen aged 22 and son John Thomas aged 0. All born Pemberton, Wigan.

    RG11, piece 3780, folio 68, page 19 refers.

    Any good? :)
     
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  3. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Have edited my initial post, got wife's maiden name wrong.

    Looking good to me :)

    I will have to send for the marriage cert to check for father.

    Ordered
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  4. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    The John found by Jan in 1881 can be found in
    1891 RG12/3065/43/40 - in Pemberton
    1901 RG13/3568/35/8 - as a coal hewer - in Pemberton
     
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  5. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Just re-read the dob from 1939 and so I now think that this could be a different chap. If the birthday was in May, it could not have been registered in March :headbang:

    Serves me right for trying to think straight at 6am....:oops:
     
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  6. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I thought it was a big jump from a coal hewer to a cowman in a few years.
     
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  7. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    And just to confirm that the John Thomas DAVIES registered in Wigan in the March qtr 1881 is not yours, he can be found in the 1939 Register still living in Wigan.

    I cannot find a John Thomas DAVI(E)S registered at Wigan in the June qtr 1881, but there is a John DAVIES registered there in the June qtr 1881, mother's maiden name WINSTANLEY. This John DAVIES & family can be found in the 1891 census of Wigan living at 2 Stones Yd (RG12/3050, folio 70, page 9), father John being born in Mold, Flintshire. The family are still living in Wigan in the 1901 where John junior is shown as a Coal Hewer's Drawer. However, there are quite a few John (Thomas) DAVI(E)S's born c1881 in Wigan - wouldn't you just know it - in the 1911 census of Wigan, so determining which is which is not easy. Do let us know the result when you get the marriage certificate.

    Janet
     
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  8. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Will do @janetbooth I will more than likely still need help to find him in previous censuses.
     
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  9. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I read somewhere that the brain is sharper & thinking clearer in the early morning hours. Must be the other way around over there where things are not right side up :D
     
  10. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    There is a marriage of John Davies and Margaret Winstanley 23 Sep 1872 St George Wigan. Both are minors and John’s occupation is Collier. Poor Margaret is described as being born out of wedlock :( John’s father is also John a Collier.
    Then a baptism of John Davies, father John, Collier on 23 May 1881 at All Saints Wigan, abode Little London but birth date is given as 12th May 1881. Lancashire OPC
     
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  11. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Ok have just this minute received the marriage cert.

    Registry office, Shrewsbury 16th December 1907

    John Thomas Davies, age 24, Bachelor, General Labourer.
    Father was: Arthur Davies, Collier, deceased.

    He and his intended had been living together, both their addresses at the time of marriage were the same.
     
  12. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Not necessarily... ;)

    I have an instance where the bride put her address as being the same as the groom's but was in fact living elsewhere where she was in service.

    Then again, they might have been. :D
     
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  13. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Think I've found them

    1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
    Bolney Street, Aspull, Wigan, Lancashire, England
    RG12, Piece 3047, Folio 115, Page 8

    Arthur Davis, Head, 41, 1850, Collier, Shropshire
    Margaret Davis, Wife, 33, 1858, Shropshire
    Mary A Davis, Daughter, 18, 1873, Cotton Spinner, Shropshire
    Martha A Davis, Daughter, 17, 1874, Cotton Spinner. Shropshire
    William A, Davis, Son, 14, 1877, Coal Drawer, Lancashire
    George H Davis, Son, 12, 1879, Lancashire
    John T Davis, Son, 9, 1882, Shropshire

    George H(enry) born 1879 was registered in Wigan with the mothers name NAYLOR

    As was William A(rthur) born 1877.

    Arthur Davies married Hannah Naylor in Forden in March qtr 1872

    There is a birth registration in Forden for a John Thomas Davies MMN Naylor in June qtr 1881
     
  14. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Well that's one father we hadn't considered! 1881 census of Worthen, Shropshire (RG11/5492, folio 16, page 25) shows Arthur DAVIES, Lead Miner born Worthen, living at Bromlow with wife Hannah and children Mary Ann, Martha Hannah, William Arthur & George Henry.

    FMP have the parish register entry for Arthur's baptism in 1849 at Worthen. 1871 census of Worthen, Montgomeryshire (RG10/5622, folio 17, page 25) shows an Arthur DAVIES aged 21 born Worthen, living at 132 March with father William & his wife Charlotte plus siblings Owen, William & George. Mother's name is different to the one shown on the baptismal record, their their last child is only being aged 2 - a difference of 15 years, so I wonder if father William married twice? Oh, now that is fortuitous. Next door at 133 is a William NAYLOR married to Judith and amongst their children is a Hannah NAYLOR aged 18 born Habberley, Shropshire!

    Janet
     
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  15. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    Strange, because William married Charlotte James in 1846 some 3 years before Arthur was born.
    Yes, Hannah married Arthur (from next door) in 1872.

    In 1881 Arthur, Hannah and the family are living at Bromlow Callow, Worthen (Salop), sometime after they moved to Wigan. They had at least 2 children in Wigan, 3 if you count John Thomas Davies b. 1881, Hannah must have become ill as she came home and her death is recorded in the Forden R.D. in 1883. Arthur either stayed in Wigan or took the family back up after Hannah's death. He remarried to a Margaret Davies up there in 1890. Arthur died in 1893 in Aspull, Lancashire
     
  16. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    That's interesting. I have just had another look and the entry definitely shows the baptism 4 May 1849 son of William & Elizabeth DAVIES, The Gravells, Miner. Looking on the GRO Index, there only seems to be one birth registration for an Arthur DAVI(E)S in the appropriate timescale and place for a baptism in May 1849, and that is the one with mother's maiden name JAMES. Also had a look on the 1851 census and I cannot find an Arthur DAVI(E)S born c1850 at Worthen with father William and mother Elizabeth. Wonder if they got it wrong on the baptismal record or is there another Arthur DAVI(E)S lurking somewhere??

    Janet
     
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  17. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    I just put it down to too much communal wine :D
     
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  18. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    As ya do. ;)
     
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