William James Guy D'elsa

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by Amle, May 19, 2019.

  1. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

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    Please help me if only to calm down. I am too excited to see anything objectively. For years I have been looking for an uncle William James Guy, and I do have a thread about him, trying to find out more about him but we didn't find out what happened to him at all. Is it possible one of the mods could link these threads. I did want to start a new one as somehow this may be a different Guy.
    My William James Guy was born on 22nd Sept 1895 in Bristol. His younger years are well documented. Then he appears to go to Canada, join the CEF but discharged medically unfit after a few weeks. William returns to the UK and marries Dorothy Morgans and they return to Canada for a few years. Two babies are born that do not survive and the couple return to the UK where Dorothy divorces William for infidelity. She remarries and returns to Canada.
    William James Guy however remains elusive and from here we loose track of him. My mother told me he bigamously married a rich Irish girl, had a baby and would not recognise the family again. There was an occasional letter from Canada and William was said to work on the Niagara Falls, he was also thought to be in New Zealand around the time of the Napier earthquake.
    Today I found a possible chap but I can't work him out at all. He appears in other peoples trees. This chap is William James Guy D'elsa, born just the day after mine, also in Bristol. He seems to sit in a family of 12 children that all have the surname Guy and are not my family definitely. He sometimes appears as Michael James Guy D'elsa. I cant find any birth registrations. I can also see some records in Canada and New Zealand! This chap married a lady called Edith Holloway Paul, in Wales in 1923 and possibly again in New Zealand in 1932. I have tried to contact the tree owners but no joy so far. So I am trying to work out William James Guy D'elsa and Edith Holloway Paul to see can I eliminate them. We do think our chap used different names. I just dont know where to start.
    Thank you for reading this far. Elizabeth.
     
  2. GrannyBarb

    GrannyBarb Custodian of the Family Accounts

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    ():-)Calming hugs. Breathe. I have no other help, though. :oops:
    Well, I am crossing my fingers that you get the answer you need soon.
     
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  3. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    There is a birth registration of a Michael G D'Elsa in the Dec Q of 1927 - Camberwell. Mother's maiden name is Paul.
     
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  4. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Edith H Paul marries Guy D'Elsa Dec qtr 1924 Ffestiniog 11b 677 (Merionethshire Wales)
     
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  5. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    Sailing from London to Sydney Australia on 15 Nov 1924 - ship "Orama"

    Mr G D'Elsa - 29, Engineer
    Mrs E H D'Elsa - 26
    Miss R D'Elsa - 2

    Future intended permanent residence - New Zealand

    Last Address in the UK - 59 Avenue Road, Regents Park, NW8

    They arrived in Fremantle on 15 December 1924 and gave an address in Australia of Hotel Sydney, Sydney
     
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  6. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    There is birth reg for a Rita Paul - mmn Holloway - June qtr 1921
    Tynemouth 10b 634
     
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  7. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    Edith Holloway D'Elsa (Housewife) arrived in the UK 12 August 1949 on board the ship Waiwera.

    Port of departure - Napier, New Zealand

    Proposed address in the UK - 48 Tierney Road, Streatham Place, London SW2

    Last Permanent Residence - New Zealand

    Country of intended future permanent residence - England
     
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  8. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Edith Holloway D'Elsa died in 1984 (Born 10/4/1898)
    March qtr Camden Vol.14 page 2369
     
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  9. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone. My mind is in overdrive, as I have battled with this today. As a hypothesis I am wondering did William James Guy and his first wife Dorothy separate before or around the time Dorothy returns to the UK in 1920. She then divorces him in 1924. We did then find a ship record on UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 Class: BT26; Piece: 726; Item: 37 in 1922 where William James Guy has a six month baby with him Radia and is leaving the US. Today I have found a death of a Sophie Louise D'elsa who died just weeks before William retuned to Ireland. It could then appear William assumed his wife's name and got married in 1924 (Mollymays post4) The third wife is ?Edith Holloway Paul and they leave for NZ? Now I have put this together because I so want it to be this and I need to prove it. It does fit nicely and I can dream. It fits in with what you have found above.
     
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  10. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

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    So I am assuming the marriage had broken down and Edith returned home alone. I know I am assuming too much.
     
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  11. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Edith does return to NZ in 1950 alone (her address 13 Shirehall, Close Hendon)
    Departed 26/1/1950 on board the Rangitane from London to Auckland
     
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  12. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Edith H Paul 1901 census RG13/4892/123/5 in Whitehaven Cumbria
    1911 census RG14 PN25685 SN209 in Barrow in Furness
     
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  13. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    There are a lot of references to the name D’elsa in the New Zealand newspapers. I had a quick look and saw references to Guy and Raydia but haven’t actually looked at any of the articles, as the site seems to be having a problem at the moment. Might be worth you having a look. You’ll find the search page at
    Code:
    https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers
     
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  14. Amle

    Amle Well-Known Member

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    I told you I was running before I could walk but she died here in 1984 Post 8
     
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  15. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Anc. passenger lists (incoming and departing) only go to 1960, so she could well have returned - it seems she did a lot of tooing and froing between here and NZ
     
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  16. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Possibly air travel was available for her by then?
     
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  17. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Michael Guy D’Elsa appears on Australian National Archives in 1947, series J25 that I believe to be immigration application.
     
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  18. Doug

    Doug Administrator. The Main Man. Staff Member

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    https://genealogy-specialists.com/threads/william-james-guy-born-1895.8361/#post-125179
     
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  19. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Edith H D’elsa returned to New Zealand from Southhampton in 1962 on the Southern Cross. She gave her age as 56 (born 1898 :rolleyes: ) and was a housewife.
    She mustn’t have been short of a quid with all this travelling.
    1927 Wellington to London
    1949 Napier to London
    1950 London to Auckland
    1962 Southampton to Auckland and these are only ones that I have found
     
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  20. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    There is a marriage in New Zealand 1932/8245 for William James Guy D’Elsa and Edith Holloway Paul. Why would they marry twice? Only if the first one was illegal!
     
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