William Jones - born about 1890

Discussion in 'Criminal Ancestors' started by The Artful Dodger, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I have yet to find a satisfactory birth certificate for him however his parents were Walter Pocock Jones [a Lamplighter] and Mary Susan Trengrove. The parents married 4 March 1888 at Hoxton Square St. Peter, Hackney.

    Walter died 1st q. 1891 in Hackney and at the time of the census, young William was with his mother and sister living with a family called Wickland in Hackney - RG12/190/76/73. Later in the same year I believe his sister died.

    His mother then married John Hutchison 2nd q. 1892 in Hackney - vol. 1b, page 983. They had a son, Hugh in 1894 and another son, Thomas in 1895. I have yet to find satisfactory birth registrations for either son. John went to his great reward 3rd q. 1896 at St. George in the East, London - vol. 1c, page 259.

    Mary Susan then married David Thomson in the 4th q. 1897 in St. George in the East - vol. 1c, page 651 and by the time of the 1901 census - RG13/317/40/28 - the 3 stepsons along with 2 children of the marriage can be found.

    1911 census, has Hugh and now 4 sons of David and Mary Susan living at 13 Ronald Street, Stepney E. No sign of Thomas Hutchison or William Jones.

    I still have not found Thomas in 1911, but did find William.

    William is an Inmate at Wormwood Scrubs Prison on Ducaine Road, Shepherds Bush. He is indicated as age 21, single with the occupation of Bricklayers Labourer. I would like to find more out about him. Any suggestions?

    Colin
     
  2. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    A slight typo in the surname of Mary Susan - it should read Trengove.
     
  3. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    His baptismal record is on Ancestry's London Parish Registers and reads:

    Born 29 March 1890, baptised 17 October 1894 at St John, Wapping William JONES son of Walter & Mary Susan JONES of 9 Southgate Road N, Foreman Lighterman (deceased)

    Just in case you do not already have this information.

    Janet
     
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  4. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Have you discounted this birth for Thomas?

    Thomas Henry HUTCHISON, December quarter 1894, St George in the East registration district, volume 1c, page 390
     
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  5. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Could he not have been born earlier? I found this:

    Hugh Anderson HUTCHISON, December quarter 1892, Hackney registration district, volume 1b, page 448
     
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  6. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Hi Janet and Jan
    I had found this but discounted it as far too late in the range. Now I've looked again it now is definite it is him.

    Why am I so sure now? Easy-peasy - same day same page, her 2 boys with Hutchison were also baptised.

    Thank you both.
     
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  7. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I should have spotted the next two baptisms down - talk about tunnel vision! Glad to be of at least a little help.

    Janet
     
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  8. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    No problem - you were more than just a little help
     
  9. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    There is a marriage registration of a Thomas H HUTCHISON in the June qtr 1919 at Kensington reg district to a Dorothy M KING - perhaps a possibility?

    Janet
     
  10. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Yes it may be possible. I checked London and England Marriages and Banns, but nothing showed up.

    I also have not found Thomas Henry - either as Hutchinson or Hutchison - in 1911 census.

    Colin
     
  11. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    I have now found a possible marriage for Hugh A - Thomas's brother - to a Emily Creak on 6 September 1913 on London, England, Marriages and Banns in Stepney.

    It indicates father was Hugh - Engineer and the occupation of the groom was Baker's Assistant. There is no indication that his father was deceased.

    In 1911 census the groom was living with his mother and her 3rd husband in Stepney and his occupation was a Baker's Roundsman.

    The baptism of Hugh A. indicates his father was John, a Wharfinger Foreman. John died in 1896.

    Could Hugh A. have just 'created' a different identity for his father?

    Colin
     
  12. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Have a look on the criminal records on Findmypast: in a calendar of prisoners they have a likely looking William Jones a.k.a. Driscoll who would have been in Wormwood Scrubs at this time. He hadn't been out long when he was sentenced to another 18 months (this time under the name William Driscoll).

    You can find details of the two trials in the Old Bailey Proceedings.

    http://www.
    oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-24a-19110110&div=t19110110-24a#highlight

    http://www.
    oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-44-19121201&div=t19121201-44#highlight
     
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  13. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Thanks for this - lotsa reading to do.

    If my bloke, he seems a somewhat 'unsavoury person'.

    Colin
     
  14. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Can I resume this thread with a description of William Jones aka Driscoll?

    He was 5 feet 4 and half inches tall and was missing his right arm. The last conviction I have for him when he was convicted of Robbery with Violence and got 18 months in Wormwood Scrubs. This was in December 1912

    If we presume that he was a good boy - unlikely given that he had 4 convictions between February 1910 and December 1912 as well as 4 Summary convictions for unlawful possession - he was deemed a Habitual Criminal.

    As for his background prior to crime:
    1] By the time of the 1891 census, he was living with 23 year old mother [now a widow] and his 2 year old sister Lilian in 2 rooms of a dwelling at 9, Southgate Road, Hackney. There was no occupation noted for the mother. Her husband had died 1st q. 1891.
    2] His sister Lilian died 4th q. 1891.
    3] His mother married again 2nd q. 1892 and had 2 children that were born 16 Sep 1892 and 26 Sep. 1894. Then her 2nd husband died 3rd q. 1896
    4] His mother married again 4th q. 1897 and by the time of the 1901 census - RG13, Piece 317, Dolio 40, page 28, she and the 5 children were living with her husband - a Hydraulic Machineman - at 5 Glamis Road, Shadwell, Stepney.
    5] By 1910 William was in trouble with the law.

    I have my doubts that he went straight after this lot but I can't find him however I know that many of you enjoy sleuthing convicts.

    There are also a couple of deaths in London that could be him as reverting to surname Jones - one in Kensington in 1916 and the other in Woolwich in 1917 if he reverted back to the Jones surname
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    What gives you that idea....hmmmm?
     
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  16. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    According to a little bird "you ain't doing your ironing" :D - see post #12 elsewhere
     
  17. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Took me four hours to get through that lot.......iron one shirt...back to here...iron a pillowcase...back to here, and so forth.
     
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  18. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Like me and housework. Make half the bed - back to here - make the other half - back to here - grab a beer - back to here etc. ad nauseum!!
     
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  19. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    In researching his mother - Mary Susan TRENGOVE - I am of the opinion that since she had a tough start and go of life, her son William must have been a great disappointment to her.
     
  20. The Artful Dodger

    The Artful Dodger Dodging, ducking and diving

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    Was he still hanging around in 1919? According to a statement made by his mother for the Vicar of St. Thomas Church on 1 October 1919 her son William was living with her and some other family members @ 54 Davenport Street, Ratcliff, however she indicated his surname was Thomson rather than Jones. In the past William was also known as Driscoll and given his criminal nature I wonder if he later 'assumed' the name Thomson and contined his life of crime?
     

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