William Watson Turner born 1792

Discussion in 'Derbyshire' started by annabel, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    I'm trying to find out more about William Watson Turner who was born in Beeley, Derbyshire 1792.

    He appears in Brampton in 1851 as a farmer with his wife Ann born 1800 in Holborn, London and children Margaret H (actually K for Kitchen) 15, William K (Kitchen) 13, and Mary Ann 10. Also a brother in law Nathaniel S (Seth) Chaplin
    HO107; Piece: 2147; Folio: 886; Page: 1

    Now there was an Ann Chaplin born to a Seth, whose brother was Nathaniel, in Holborn. But I can't find William and Ann's marriage. I wonder if the first two children had a mother whose name was Kitchen

    William died in Beeley in 1866, but these are the only records that I have found with that middle name. What I really want to know is who were his parents, and did he have a probably older brother called Joseph. Any help gratefully recieved
     
  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    I wonder how accurate the year 1792 is. I only say this as there is a baptism on 2nd March 1794 at Darley to William Turner and his wife Ruth. Darley is only about 4 miles from Bexley.

    If he was born in 1793, it is still within a year.

    Possible?
     
  3. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Did you mean Bexley? The place in question is Beeley and that seems further away ;)
     
  4. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    No, Beeley. Both it and Darley Dale are close to Matlock. :)
     
  5. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Ah, I don't know that area at all. I'll have a look at that baptism
     
  6. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Well! There is a possible brother to the William of Darley. Joseph Turner, born 1792 in Darley, but there is a blank space where his mother should be. If, and it's a big if, he is the person who I am looking for who baptised a daughter Mary Ann in 1809 in Westminster with his wife Ann, then he would have been 17. Is that really likely?

    There is a death of a Joseph born 1892 in who died in Beeley in 1843
    There is also the admittance of a Joseph of St George Hanover Square, born 1892 into an asylum for the insane in 1848 (I've never found him in a census either)

    But I haven't found any more on William Watson Turner, he must have been around in 1861 and 1841!
     
  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Derbyshire.jpg
    I was on the ipad thingy last night so could not snip the map but this should give you an idea of how close they are. :)
     
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  8. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Margaret Kitching Turner was baptised 11 October 1835 Saint Thomas Brampton to William Turner and Ann. She married Francis Boler in 1857.
    In 1841 she is with William Turner age 40 Ann age 35 William 3 and Mary 0 and a Hannah Unwin age 12
    9 HO107 194/7 Derbyshire
     
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  9. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Annabel, do you know what happened to the son, William Kitchen Turner? If not, I can send you details. It is a very sad tale and widely reported in the papers.
     
  10. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    This extract is from an article in the Derbyshire Times of the 14th May 1873
    William Kitchen Turner was undoubtedly a man of defective intellect, and as stated in out last week's report, of a very passionate disposition. The mental weakness appears to have been inherited from his father, for his mother, now over 70 years of age, is a shrewd, clear-headed woman, a native of Scotland, we are informed, and of a well-to-do family.
     
  11. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thank you, I knew he died young, but not more than that
     
  12. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    If you send me your e-mail address via a conversation, I'll send you a couple of lengthy articles :)
     
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  13. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Received, thank you. A tragic tale

    Although one thing i note is that Ann said she came from Scotland. So she can't be Ann Chaplin from Holborn! I never did find their marriage...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  14. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Yes, so very sad.

    I wondered about statement that Ann came from Scotland. I wonder if it was just something the paper was told and they went along with it (much as papers so today :rolleyes:) without bothering to try and find out if it was true. I'll have a look at the reports in the other papers and see if there is any other mention of Scotland.
     
  15. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I wonder if obtaining his Will may give you any clues as regards his family members, Annabel. The National Probate Calendar shows that William Watson TURNER late of Nether Loads, Brampton, Farmer, died on 6 September 1866 and probate was granted on 12 December to his relict Ann & son William Kitching TURNER.

    I cannot look any further at the moment, grandson sitting duties call, but FMP have a fair few TURNER Wills online for the Brampton area - could be worth a look to see if any mention a son William W. Will have a look later for you.

    Janet
     
  16. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thank you, I am currently drowning in Turners, almost all who have a son called William and a wife called Ann and lived around Brampton. There are also several Turners marrying Turners!

    Then loads of them moved to Westminster and some married Turner cousins called Davis :headbang:

    I know that most if not all of them are related to my Mary Ann Turner born 1809 St James Piccadilly. Her mother was Ann, but I'm not certain of her father. And William Watson Turner is some kind of closer relation, and one of the few with a good middle name.

    Now I've got that off my chest :) I'll have to look at that will, but I'm still waiting for some I ordered in July so it may be some time
     
  17. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    Mary Ann's birth/baptismal record doesn't give many clues does it, just that she was born 14, baptised 24 May 1809 daughter of Joseph & Ann. There is a burial record at St James Piccadilly on 3 August 1811 for a Joseph TURNER, aged 39, which could perhaps be relevant to you. This would give a birthdate c1772. It might also explain why I cannot find any other TURNER baptisms to Joseph & Ann at St James Piccadilly. Unfortunately, the burial record is not very helpful either as no occupation or address is given.

    There is, however, a baptism at St James Piccadilly on 12 July 1772 (birth 20 June) for a Joseph son of John & Elizabeth TURNER - again no further details unfortunately.

    Not too sure whether this helps at all or confuses matters still further.

    Janet
     
  18. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Thank you Ann and Janet. I am working so can't apply myself properly to this tangled web until the weekend. But you may be on to something there
     
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  19. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Hello Janet, could you tell me where you found that burial for Joseph Turner? I can't find one with that particular date, or any age given.

    Mary Ann Turner's mum Ann was, I think, with Mary Ann's daughter Ellen Skinner in 1841 Piece: 685; Book: 1; Civil Parish: St Pancras; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: 14; Page: 21

    This gives a birthdate of about 1781. If the Lucy Hannah Davis/ Davies (parents Robert and Lucy) also with her is her sister, then I have found a marriage for Ann Davis and Joseph in 1800 in St Mary Lambeth. If correct he would have been 27 and she was 19, so maybe a second marriage for him. However I haven't found any siblings for Mary Ann between this 1800 marriage and his potential burial in 1811, or a birth for Ann

    The witnesses for the wedding were William John Turner and W Gawler. Another William! I haven't found one with that middle name. 2 Steps forward, 2 steps back!
     
  20. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    The burial record is on FMP Annabel and even if you do not have a subscription, the transcript gives you all the details except that the transcription assumes that the date recorded in the burial register is the death date.

    Janet
     
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