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WW1 uniform ?

Discussion in 'British Army' started by Philb-c, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    Here's a nice little detective test.

    The attached photograph is of a British WW1 officer .... any ideas as to the regiment (I can't get the cap badge any clearer) ?
    Also, who would like to plump for his age ?
    Finally, going by their respective ages, would you say bride & groom after the ceremony or bride & father before the ceremony ?

    uniform.jpg
     
  2. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    The soldier has senior officers' collar tabs. The 3 lowest ranks to wear these were Major to full Colonel although some Captains could wear them as well if they were adjutants (assistants to a senior officer). There seem to be 3 'pips' on his shoulders which means he would either have been a captain or a full colonel. My initial hunch was that he's a full colonel (crown and 2 pips) but that's only because he seems quite old to be a captain. On the other hand he may have been a captain in the Territorials (voluntary reserve).

    The inverted chevrons indicate that he served overseas. He appears to have 4 of them which would indicate he served 4 years overseas. A research site says that these chevrons "weren't authorised until December 1917 and were discontinued in 1922". This helps date the photo as it must have been taken after August 1918 at the very earliest.

    I'm coming round to him being a captain rather than a colonel as he only wears one ribbon which would appear to be the Military Cross.

    Of course that's all guesswork - so one more guess...I think that's his daughter!

    Code:
    http://www.researchingww1.co.uk/overseas-service-chevrons
     
  3. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    Hi Flook, I was just reading about the "overseas service chevrons" (1917-1922) when my computer "beeped" about your posting - what you have found is the same as I (so that's one theory thrown out).
    However, I consider a definite "no" to be just as important as a definite "yes" so it's still onwards and upwards :)

    (I also think father & daughter)
     
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  4. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I don’t know much about the ‘etiquette’ of church marriages, but if this is the bride with her father before the ceremony, wouldn’t she have her veil over her face? If I’m right, this must have been taken after the ceremony, so wouldn’t the bride be on her husband’s arm.....
     
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  5. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    As you might have guessed, we are still looking at "the box" !

    Any thoughts on this one ? ....... Untitled-9 copy.jpg
    .... feel free to think out loud ?
     
  6. Jellylegs

    Jellylegs Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking the same Ann.
     
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  7. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    On the Battlefield at Carnoy* - about 3/4 mile North East of church at Carnoy
    2 1/4 miles East of Tricourt - 3 1/4 miles East south East of Albert - on the right of the Mountain Road - the most advanced of the mass (?) - ref to map sheet 62c sqr A8a

    i/c Infantry Records Hounslow

    T W J Clack

    *From the CWGC upload_2018-2-13_19-26-23.png
     
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  8. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    I read it the same as MollyMay, except that I think Mountain Road reads Montauban Road.

    From wikipedia '"Capture of Montauban":
    "which left a devastated area in front of Carnoy near the Carnoy–Montauban road"

    Code:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Montauban
     
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  9. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    Looking at the badge it seems to me that in the middle is a shield with a supporter either side, my immediate thought was Manchester Regt and having looked through images of my badge collection (242) the Manchester Regt is the best fit.

    The Manchester Regt badge has the Manchester coat of arms with a rampant Horse on the left hand side and a rampant Lion on the right hand side.

    The badge in the photo is not very clear so at best the above is my best guess.

    Edited to correctly position the animals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  10. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One

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    upload_2018-2-14_13-17-35.png

    Apologies for getting the animals the wrong way round, now corrected.
     
  11. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I too think father and daughter. My veil was not over my face when I was Leaving home for the marriage. If I remember my father covered my face at the church.
     
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  12. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    It's true Men age better than women but I don't think the woman is all that young nor the man all that old. Some older men did marry younger[slightly] women. Love to hear from who-ever can come up with the correct answer. ;) There was always a shortage of men after a war & was was aging to persons involved, so ladies were lucky to find love at all I guess.
     
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  13. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    Speculation can sometimes pan out but the dates for #1 are not working (but now I know who it isn't, so it's still good) :)

    Speculation with #5 is a totally separate issue.
    Is anyone thinking "Why is that found in a box in Worthing, when it should be in a box with the Infantry Record Office in Hounslow" ?
    Thinking aloud, if "GS 17164" (ignoring the '4') relates to 1st July 1916, an Isaac Walter John CLACK died on 1 July 1916, Flanders, France !
    Continuing on from that, also in the box was a teenager's autograph book with two entries signed "Walter CLACK, 1915" and "Walter CLACK, 10 Jan 1915" !

    There is also an envelope (no contents) from "The War Office, graves registration and enquiries", dated September 1916.

    Interesting or pure coincidence ?
     
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  14. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    That all feels just right. It seems to me that the paper you have is simply someone's copy of the original entry.
     
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  15. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I'm an old romantic (it is Valentines day) .... I'm thinking, Isaac Walter CLACK could be "Walter" in the autograph book, a boyfriend or fiance' who was killed 1/7/16 and his personal effects returned to Worthing accidentally including the message #5.
     
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  16. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman

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    More than likely they are the same person. I'm convinced that's just a copy of the original entry. Looking at it again it seems to to me to be a copy made by the Hounslow office and sent on to his parents. Is the War Diary of the 7th Battalion, The Queen's, on The National Archives website?
     
  17. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    You've probably found this Phil, taken from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site

    upload_2018-2-14_13-51-34.png

    Louisa, his mother, was a Louisa Lucas before she married.
     
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  18. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    Also, in a 1911 census for 50 Wimpole Street, Marylebone, London (the LUCAS family) there is a servant (footman) named Isaac Walter John CLACK, age 17.
     
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  19. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Going back to the photograph - don't suppose there are any little clues like a photographer's name? Have you got any sort of inkling as to who they might be......I think I know what the answer is going to be :rolleyes:
     
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  20. Philb-c

    Philb-c Well-Known Member

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    If somehow Walter CLACK can be traced down to Worthing in 1915, we have our man :)
     

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