Discussion in 'British Army' started by Philb-c, Feb 13, 2018.
GS 17164(could be a service number)
On the Battlefield at Carnoy - about 3/4 mile North East of church at Carnoy
2 1/4 miles East of Fricourt - 3 1/4 miles East south East of Albert - on the right of the Montauban Road - the most advanced of the mass (?) - ref to map sheet 62c sqr A8a
i/c (In Command) Infantry Records Hounslow
He is describing to me the place Mametz or Mametz Wood, a battlefield in 1916, maybe where someone was buried or was KIA
22968 was another Soldier BOTH are commemorated At Albert
The Officer in the Picture was Probably on his wedding day, a Captain on the General Staff, a look at the Gazette should show when and why he is wearing the ribbon although I would have thought he would be wearing the Medal unless it hadn't been issued yet, which if found in the Gazette would give a very good idea of when the photo was taken
this is just my take on this post
Having just seen the above post IWJ Clack headstone this could be where he was killed, the Officer being a relative ie brother or cousin?
On the face of it, the document was destined for the Infantry Records Office at Hounslow and it does rather look to me as being actually signed by IWJ CLACK.
I'm intrigued as to why there is no obvious date, unless "1716" is 1st July 1916 (the "4" remains a mystery). If the date theory is correct (and it was signed by him) it was on the day of his death.
I have emailed various bodies regarding the meaning of "GS 17164" and "DA 22968" without success.
(GS) "17164" ("GS" unknown) Private David WILLIAMS, died 10th July 1916.
If "17164" refers to Pvt David Williams demise it couldn't be signed by CLACK who was killed 9 days earlier.
"DA" (22968 unknown) could stand for "Danzig Alley" a German trench position (later a British cemetery) ?
If "22968" refers to Pvt Sydney CURLEY, died 30th July 1916, again the document couldn't be signed by CLACK.
If the document pertains to the initial burial of Pvt CLACK, I think his service number "3137" would feature prominently plus the document quotes ref: "62c, sqr A8a" but Private CLACK was buried at map ref: "62c, A, 8, B, 3, 2" (before being later exhumed and laid to rest at the permanent British cemetery after the war).
I have been unable (so far) to locate a 1916 trench map with sufficient detail to pinpoint the exact location of either map reference.
I'm thinking the document could be just a report of "The 7th Queen's" position (which would be useless without a date and possibly time (see above)) ?
Perhaps it was found on his person and inadvertently grouped among his personal possessions to be sent home (rather than reaching it's intended destination) ?
Have you seen the War diaries of the Battalion they are on line although the first half of july are missing http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.u...eens/7Bn_Queens_1916/7Bn_Queens_1916_07.shtml
Any one interested in the the East and West Surreys http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/war_diaries/war_diaries_home_new.shtml
If DA is referring to "Danzig Alley" then GS would therefore refer to a similar reference place/trench ie Green Street or something similar, as these two Soldiers were commemorated on the Albert memorial their bodies were not buried but lost, maybe close to where IWJ Clack was known to be buried and would be making aware that more bodies where in the area, it is so sad that many Soldiers on both sides were never found or that they could not be identified
I had come upon the diaries and, as for the first half of July, Isn't that always the way !
I can't help but be swayed towards the document "reading" like the infantry position and Pvt Clack's name on the document "looking" like a signature (a "similar" signature is in the discovered autograph book).
Unfortunately, whilst CWGC were only too keen to accept a copy of the document, they never did reply to any questions relating to it.
I need a fresh lead as to whom else I should ask.
You could ring the CWGC Enquiry line, they are very helpful... the other thing would be to ask at the IWM either going or speak to some one and send a copy... must admit it is confusing
Maybe the lady in the Photo is IWJ Clack's sister? or he was the officer's batman, or the Officer was his employer before signing up
As you say, confusing and also open to countless theories.
The document is also best described as not much more than a scrap of paper - could, perhaps Pvt Clack have been making rough intelligence notes to take back to his CO ?
1st to 8th July has turned up on Ancestry (not even The Queen's 7th website has this) .... No mention of Pvt Clack as only officers are named.
Currently chatting with IWM regarding the mystery document.
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