John Simpson Excise Man 1820-1850

M

Mrs Simpsontobe

New Member
Hello everyone, I have just joined the site today. I have been trying to find a death record for John but not successful yet. He was an Excise Man living in London in 1821 when his son Frederick Henry was born, along
with his wife Maryanne, in Bacon Street. Maryanne is in the 1841 census, in Liverpool with Fred and 2 other children, John not mentioned. He appears on Fred's marriage certificate in 1849, living in Liverpool. In 1851 census Maryanne appears as a widow. Seems I might have to visit Kew for more info, a bit putoffby the previous comments though - it's not particularly user friendly there apparently.Any help would be gratefully received.
 
There is a john Simpson died 1837 in Liverpool would perhaps account for him not on 1841 ref is 3rd are Liverpool too 20 page 129
And welcome to forum
There is also one in 1851 1st are Liverpool vol 20 page 3
 
Mrs Simpsontobe said:
Maryanne is in the 1841 census, in Liverpool with Fred and 2 other children, John not mentioned. He appears on Fred's marriage certificate in 1849, living in Liverpool. In 1851 census Maryanne appears as a widow.
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Welcome to the forum, Mrs Simpsontobe.

A quick comment on what you wrote here: on an English marriage certificate the addresses are those of the groom and bride. Their fathers are named, with their occupations but not their addresses.

If a father had died before the marriage "deceased" is sometimes included, but not reliably. So the fact that John is named on Fred's marriage certificate but not noted as deceased can't be taken as proof that he was still alive.

Unfortunately that will expand the period in which you need to look for the death...
 
Women have been recorded as 'widow' at times when /if their husband has gone astray or they have split up. Later they might find proof of his death & remarry or claim widowhood.
 
Mrs Simpsontobe said:
Hello everyone, I have just joined the site today. Maryanne is in the 1841 census, in Liverpool with Fred and 2 other children, John not mentioned. He appears on Fred's marriage certificate in 1849, living in Liverpool. In 1851 census Maryanne appears as a widow. .
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Welcome in MrsSimpsontobe, can you please give a source no for the 1841-1851 census in which you found Mary Ann & Fred please. I can't seem to locate them in Liverpool. I'm guessing that Fred married Sarah Stone?
Perhaps this is her in 1841? HO107; Piece: 568; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Toxteth Park; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 47; Folio: 11; Page: 14;

I was going page to page to see if I could spot Fred or Mary Ann & 2 other children, but ran out of spark. Have you found marriages for his siblings to see if John was mentioned as alive or not.? Any extra info would help us to find more.
 
For what it's worth I can't find them in the 1841 or 1851 census either.
 
Just found them
HO107; Piece: 567; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Toxteth Park; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 24; Folio: 65; Page: 13; Line: 17;
Mary Simpon 40
Fredick Simpon 18
William Simpon 6
Emily Simpon 4 only William born in County.
I ran out of edit time.

1851
Birth Year (Estimated) 1835
Birthplace Liverpool, Lancashire
Mary Anne Simpson Head F 51 Castle Donington, Leicestershire
William Edward Simpson Son M 16 Liverpool, Lancashire
Page Number 11
HO107/2186 / 598 page 11
 
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The marriage of William in 1874 St James, Accrington, Lancashire, England, doesn't mention the death or otherwise of his father John either, tho' named as a labourer, & William now a quarryman.

May be not correct.:oops:
 
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arthurk said:
Welcome to the forum, Mrs Simpsontobe.

A quick comment on what you wrote here: on an English marriage certificate the addresses are those of the groom and bride. Their fathers are named, with their occupations but not their addresses.

If a father had died before the marriage "deceased" is sometimes included, but not reliably. So the fact that John is named on Fred's marriage certificate but not noted as deceased can't be taken as proof that he was still alive.

Unfortunately that will expand the period in which you need to look for the death...
Click to expand...
 
Ma-dotcom said:
Women have been recorded as 'widow' at times when /if their husband has gone astray or they have split up. Later they might find proof of his death & remarry or claim widowhood.
Click to expand...
Besides what I wrote before about the lack of "deceased" on a marriage certificate, what Ma says here (about censuses) is also true. So your period to search for the death becomes even wider... :confused:
 
I still think it maybe worth getting certificate for the death in 1851 I mentioned in #2
As he isn't in the 1851 its a possibility as is the 1837 as he also isn't in 1841
 
Working on the assumption that John was probably dead by 1851 (if not 1841), do you know if Maryanne had any family connections in Liverpool, that might have led to her moving there after John had died?

Otherwise, I would think, since Excise men were usually connected with ports, it could be that John went to Liverpool with his job, and died there.

Any thoughts?

One more thing for the backburner at this stage: the death duty registers refer to probates in Chester for two John Simpsons of Liverpool: in 1855 (executor Mary Simpson) and 1856 (executor Edmund N Simpson).

I haven't followed these up at all, and getting copies from the death duty registers is a bit convoluted and costs money, but the index can be a quick way of finding a will. It sometimes takes years for probate to be granted after a death, so these could in theory relate to a death before 1841; but since John Simpson is a relatively common name, I think it may be better to explore other possibilities first.
 
arthurk said:
Working on the assumption that John was probably dead by 1851 (if not 1841), do you know if Maryanne had any family connections in Liverpool, that might have led to her moving there after John had died?

Otherwise, I would think, since Excise men were usually connected with ports, it could be that John went to Liverpool with his job, and died there.

Any thoughts?

One more thing for the backburner at this stage: the death duty registers refer to probates in Chester for two John Simpsons of Liverpool: in 1855 (executor Mary Simpson) and 1856 (executor Edmund N Simpson).

I haven't followed these up at all, and getting copies from the death duty registers is a bit convoluted and costs money, but the index can be a quick way of finding a will. It sometimes takes years for probate to be granted after a death, so these could in theory relate to a death before 1841; but since John Simpson is a relatively common name, I think it may be better to explore other possibilities first.
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Thanks, I am getting a copy of the death cert for 1851 first, see what that brings. I will keep you posted.
Yes I think John was probably moved about a great deal, starting in London and then moving to Liverpool at some point. I don't know anything about Maryanne, (or Mary Anne as it appears in the census) except that she was born in Castle Donington about 1800 (ish) and I have found details of her death in 1871 in Liverpool. She died from want of nourishment - how sad is that.
I have managed to get my hands on Excise entry papers for a John Simpson in 1821. Born in Preston and aged 23yrs. At the moment I am not able to confirm whether that is him or not, perhaps the death cert will help.
 
Hi Mrs Simpsontobe,

I'm inclined to think John Simpson had died before the 1841 census. I see Mary is described as a mangler on the census and usually only quite poor or very poor married ladies with children would do that type of work; in Mary's case I'm guessing she had been widowed and therefore had to raise an income to look after her family. I had an excise man in my ancestry and they seemed to live without his wife needing to work. So sad are these stories of a wife and children being left without the breadwinner.
 
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