Irish Records v Family Search

kernowmaid

kernowmaid

Our very own Cornish Maid
Query: If Family Search has a film entitled "Ireland Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958", should the same results appear in the Civil Records on irishgenealogy.ie?

'Cos I have a problem. Trying to find the birth of a child who died 29/30 Dec 1908 (but one wasn't registered until 17 May 1909).

She was Mary Agnes CLARKE, daughter of John (Clarke) & Maria Walsh.

There appear to be TWO records in the Death Register:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.../deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05457/4527026.pdf
or
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.../deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05466/4529799.pdf

and I'm sure I found her Death Cert for the 30th (I've printed it off, but now can't find it online!).

But as for her BIRTH ...

Family Search says it's Jan-Mar 1908, Ballina, vol 4, page 3 - Film 101072. No image available.
Irish Genealogy says "No results found".

Any suggestions? (I don't have much luck with Family Search, and don't want to pay to see a film ... this is possibly the child of the brother of my great-grandad - a "twiglet" in a HUGE family!)

Jane
 
Yes I found exactly the same on Family Search. On Ireland i.e The two deaths have been registered by different people. A Wm Adamson and there is also a correction relating I think to the age - I cannot read it very well. The second one is a John Boyd I cannot think why the same child should be registered twice. They both Died almost the same day - one day out, in the same area, of the same illness, with parents of the same name??:headbang::headbang:. I have looked and looked and feel we are missing a clue. No idea what though. Some of the records are very sketchy though on Ireland i.e. perhaps that would explain no birth record for her with them. I will keep looking.
sorry I have been putting Ireland i.e and it is Irish Genealogy i.e.
 
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Thanks for looking, gillyflower.

I missed the John Boyd entry.

The correction refers to the age ... it looks as though it was originally entered as "8 months", then changed to "1 year" - perhaps they were supposed to only enter in years?
It reads: "Eleventh error WJA 17.5.09".
EIGHT of the ten entries on that page are dated 17 May 1909 and signed by registrar Wm J Adamson - was he having a purge?

This is SO frustrating! :headbang:

Jane
 
The birth is also on FMP's index. It might be worth emailing Irish genealogy as they should have a note of the record even if the actual image has not been digitised. ( Looking at other births in Ballina at that time there are a number with no image).
 
Would someone with access to FMP be able to check the entry - Please?
Mary Agnes Clarke, born Jan-Mar 1908, Ballina, Ireland.

I'd just like to know if her parents were John (Clarke) & Maria (Walsh/Walshe), and her date of birth. Of Carrarea/Carrowreagh.

I'm unsure whether she is theirs - they had Anthony in April 1906, John in October 1907, James in October 1908, Michael in February 1910 ... so how could she be born early 1908?
Unless she was a twin to James ... in which case, why not registered at the same time?

Jane
 
It just gives you:
Mary Agnes Clarke
Registration year 1908
Quarter Jan - Mar 1908
Registration district Ballina
Volume 4
Page 3
Mother's last name (original) -
Mayo, Sligo, Ireland
Record set is Irish Births 1864-1958
 
I AM AN IDIOT!!

Moved on to Mary Agnes' sibling John, printed off the registration page for his birth (26 Oct 1907 12:55pm) ... and there, underneath him, the next entry reads:

1907 26 Oct 1o'clock pm - MARY AGNES ....

THEY WERE TWINS!

Why her name doesn't appear from a search, I don't know ... but now I need to send an "I'm ever so sorry" grovelling e-mail to irelandgenealogy.ie :oops:

And I think I've solved why these odd certificates are attached to some of the records. John Boyd was the Assistant Registrar who made the original entries, which were corrected by Registrar William Adamson, who attached certificates to the corrections. They appear on the same page of the records as "mine", so I assume the same Cert is attached to every one of the ten entries.

Oh Happy Snoopy Dance! (emoticon needed!)

Jane
 
kernowmaid said:
I AM AN IDIOT!!

Moved on to Mary Agnes' sibling John, printed off the registration page for his birth (26 Oct 1907 12:55pm) ... and there, underneath him, the next entry reads:

1907 26 Oct 1o'clock pm - MARY AGNES ....

THEY WERE TWINS!

Why her name doesn't appear from a search, I don't know ... but now I need to send an "I'm ever so sorry" grovelling e-mail to irelandgenealogy.ie :oops:

And I think I've solved why these odd certificates are attached to some of the records. John Boyd was the Assistant Registrar who made the original entries, which were corrected by Registrar William Adamson, who attached certificates to the corrections. They appear on the same page of the records as "mine", so I assume the same Cert is attached to every one of the ten entries.

Oh Happy Snoopy Dance! (emoticon needed!)

Jane
Click to expand...
Woo, Hoo8(:-)8(:-)
 
kernowmaid said:
And I think I've solved why these odd certificates are attached to some of the records. John Boyd was the Assistant Registrar who made the original entries, which were corrected by Registrar William Adamson, who attached certificates to the corrections. They appear on the same page of the records as "mine", so I assume the same Cert is attached to every one of the ten entries.
Click to expand...
I've just been trying to work out what happened with these duplicate death entries. Unfortunately, as far as I can see, Mary Agnes Clarke is the only one that appears in both, so it isn't possible to work out any pattern, but some things can nevertheless be deduced.

From the form of certificate at the bottom, and the dates, these look like quarterly returns of deaths sent by the local registrar to the GRO.

The first one, completed by William J Adamson on 9 April 1909, has copies of the entries made by John Boyd from 2-13 January 1909. John Boyd has signed these as Interim Registrar.

The second one was completed by Adamson on 13 July 1909, with copies of entries that he himself made on 14-17 May 1909. However, the deaths recorded were said to have taken place between 26 December 1908 and 26 April 1909 - in fact, of the ten, all but one were at least a month previously.

This suggests to me that there may have been some real or supposed irregularity, which meant that people were asked to re-register deaths that they had previously registered. The passage of time could easily account for the slight differences in Mary Agnes' record.

As to what the irregularity was, it's only guesswork - unless it was thought significant enough to be announced in a local newspaper. Perhaps they discovered Boyd wasn't qualified to act as a registrar, or perhaps they lost the register and thought they'd better re-register the deaths, as much as possible - these are, after all, quarterly returns, so all the 9 April copy proves is that the register was there on that day (actually on 19 April too, when it was countersigned).

Anyway, my feeling is that there was only one Mary Agnes death, and whatever went wrong was in the register office.
 
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