Where'd he go ?

Chimp

Chimp

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Elizabeth Gardener gave birth to a son on 7th January 1894 in the Knighton Union Workhouse. She named him Frederick Joseph Gardener. Elizabeth was a single domestic servant, living at Llanfair Waterdine, Shropshire.

Brecon County Times - 16 March 1894
Joseph Fletcher, Craven Arms, was summoned by the Knighton Board of Guardians to contribute towards the support of the illegitimate child of Elizabeth Gardner (sic), who is an inmate of the Knighton Workhouse. Mr Deacon, clerk to the Guardians, appeared on behalf of the Board. Defendant admitted the paternity, and agreed to pay 1s. 6d. per week towards the support of the child.

Joseph Fletcher married Elizabeth Gardener in Clun, Shropshire, in 1899.

1901 Census - Mardu, Clun, Shropshire, England
RG13
Piece - 2508
Folio - 37
Page - 9

Joseph Fletcher, Head, Married, 32, 1869, Cowman on farm, Clun, Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Fletcher, Wife, Married, 38, 1863, Shropshire, England
Janet M Gardner, Daughter, Single, 10, 1891, Shropshire, England (remember this one)
Fred J Fletcher, Son, Single, 7, 1894, Knighton, Radnorshire, Wales
Richard J Fletcher, Son, Single, 0, 1901, Clun, Shropshire, England

1911 census - The Meadows Clunton Coppice Aston on Clun, Clunbury, Shropshire, England
Piece - 15903

Elizabeth Fletcher, Head, Married, 49, 1862, Farmer, Shropshire Llanfair
Fredrick Fletcher, Son, Single, Male, 17, 1894, Labourer on farm out of employment, Radnorshire Knighton
Richard Fletcher, Son, 10, 1901, Shropshire Clun
Richard Fletcher, Boarder, Widower, 74, 1837, Old age pensioner, Shropshire Clun

(Richard Fletcher, 74, was Joseph's father)

Joseph was not on the census as he was in Shrewsbury Jail for indulging in carnal knowledge with consent with Janet M Fletcher, 1891, knowing her to be his natural daughter) (weird thing is when Janet later married she and her husband ended up living with her widowed father)

Elizabeth must have forgiven Joseph as they are all back together in 1921, but no Frederick or Janet.

In May 1912 Frederick joined the 6th Bn, Welch Regiment. His address at the time was Caerau which is west of Cardiff.

He said his next of kin was his step father, Joseph Fletcher and mother Elizabeth.

He bought himself out of the regiment in July 1914, and gave his future address as Coegnant Rd, Caerau.

Then aliens came and took him to a galaxy far far away :rolleyes:

I know that when Elizabeth died in 1929 Fredericks brother, Richard, took himself off to Australia. But, I have no idea what became of Frederick. I've tried the birth date and name on the 1939 register....... zilch.


Anyone up for a challenge ?
 
I looked on GRO first to see what name to use.
GARDENER, FREDERICK JOSEPH - no Mmn
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in KNIGHTON Volume 11B Page 116 is this the right one?

These possibles I've found also a few overseas not so likely, switching between Gardiner [various] & Fletcher.

Frederick J Fletcher
England & Wales, Death Index, 1837-2005
Death date-Jan-Feb-Mar 1947
Death place-Tonbridge, Kent, England
Birth date-Circa 1895

Name: Frederick Joseph Fletcher
Gender: Male
Initiation Age: 26
Birth Year: abt 1893
Initiation Date: 4 Apr 1919
First Payment Year on Register: 1919
Year range: 1910-1921
Profession: Cashier
Lodge: Tudor Lodge of Rifle Volunteers
Lodge Location: Wolverhampton
Lodge Number: 1838
Folio Number: 35
 
Just a slight correction - he joined the TERRITORIALS (as Gardiner), not the regular army. As a territorial he was liable to be called up as soon as war broke out, and he bought himself out less than 2-weeks before the start of WW1. Not sure how well that would have been received......

There's no sign of him on the 1921 census that I can see
 
Chimp said:
He bought himself out of the regiment in July 1914, and gave his future address as Coegnant Rd, Caerau.
Click to expand...

Did you know....

There are two Caeraus? No, I didn’t either. ;)

I was having a rummage for the address when another turned up.

One is about to 6 miles to the west of Cardiff and the other is at Maesteg – about 40 miles to the west of Cardiff/12 miles to the east of Swansea.

It is at this latter one where I discovered Coegnant Road.

Just thought that i would throw that into the mix... :rolleyes:
 
oooh I think I may have found him.

Here goes to get shot down in flames :rolleyes::oops:

Frederick was born in Knighton, he has gone by the surname Gardener...Gardner..... and Gardiner.

His parents were living at Bryncaled, Bucknell, Shropshire.

There is a marriage in 1916 in Clun (district covers Bucknell) for a Fredrick Gardiner to a Winifred E Reynolds.

Commonwealth War Graves Commission
FREDERICK GARDINER
Service Number: 36794
Regiment & Unit/Ship
Machine Gun Corps (Infantry)
61st Bn.
Date of Death - 21 March 1918
Age 33 years old
Buried or commemorated at, POZIERES MEMORIAL, France, Panel 90 to 93.

Frederick Gardiner
Death - 21 March 1918
Service number - 36794
Rank - Private
Cause of death - Killed in action
Regiment - Machine Gun Corps
Death place - France & Flanders
Battalion - (Infantry).
Supplementary Notes FORMERLY 1744, HEREFORD REGT.
Residence -
Birth place - Knighton, Radnor
Enlistment place -Knighton

upload_2022-6-15_19-49-16.png

Ancestry has under its UK, World War I Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923

NAME: Frederick Joseph Gardiner
MILITARY COUNTRY: Wales
NEXT OF KIN:
Name
Frederick Joseph Gardiner
Winifred Gardiner

I don't now have a sub to Ancestry so am unable to see the details.

What do you think (fire extinguisher at the ready)
 
It looks good to me. You need someone with access to Fold3 to see the records, I can only see the transcription, but another snippet, by looking for Winifred Gardiner, in the same record set I can see:-
Fred Gardiner, Winifred Gardiner widow (b 8/1/1895) and Alfred William Reynolds Gardiner illegitimate.
 
I think you’ve cracked it Terry :) I thought the most obvious thing that could have happened to Frederick, was that he had been killed in WW1 but I had a busy day and have only just got back to looking. I’m glad I looked to see if there had been any progress before I plunged in :D
 
I'd see this WW1 death but ruled it out (without looking any further) as he was aged 33 at death in 1918 = born c1885, whereas the man we were looking for was born Jan 1894.

However, I've now looked at the pension cards, and as mentioned above, his DoB is given as 8 Jan 1895 - exactly 1 year and 1 day out. CORRECTION - That DoB is his widows (which the above post also says, so apologies), so the age at death is still 9 years out.

One of the cards says that Winifred was ineligible for a pension as the marriage took place after enlistment (decision 27 July 1920), although an earlier card shows she was granted 13/9 plus 6/8 children's allowance from 2 Dec 1918 (decision date was 8 Feb 1918).
 
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Yes, it is very strange with his age, When his brother went to Australia he changed his date of birth too.

I know as fact this is the death of his brother.

Western Australia Death Index
John Richard Fletcher
Birth year 1897
Death year 1968
Place Perth
State Western Australia
Mother's first name(s) Unknown
Father's first name(s) Joseph
Registration number 3350/68

Says born 1897, he was actually born late 1900 or early 1901 in the Clun registration district, he also changed the location of his birth too. It would appear that for some reason they wanted to hide. I wonder if it has anything to do with cutting their selves off from the family back home, because of what Joseph did.
 
John Richard Fletcher.
Service number: W40048
DOB 1/3/1897
Born Brecon Wales
NoK Elsie Fletcher
Enlisted Perth WA
Not Yet Examined.
National Archives Of Australia WW2 Records
 
Yes that's him. see says born 1897 and in Brecon. He left for Australia when his mother died in 1929 and married Elsie Kent in 1931. He named his son Frederick after his brother. On the headstone, his wife, Elsie is named as Elsie May, when her birth was registered she was just plain Elsie born in Bungay, Suffolk.
 
Brady Family Tree
Born 29/2/1896 Shropshire married Elsie May Kent in Perth in 1931 died 1968.
Elsie May born 6/6/1897 Suffolk married 23/5/1931.
Frederick Richard born Margaret River 1932 died 1995
Ruth Elizabeth born 1938 Subiaco died same year
 
Chimp said:
Says born 1897, he was actually born late 1900 or early 1901 in the Clun registration district
Click to expand...
Found his army records in England, his date of birth on there is 2nd March 1900, so he had started lying about the year of his birth even then. He was rejected for the Royal Navy due to his rotten teeth.

He joined the KSLI on 11th April 1919 and was discharged at his own request on 19th October 1920, having to pay back £35 and £7 passage money.

upload_2022-6-16_6-23-2.png
 
It looks like Elsie's mother died intestate in 1919 and her father William James a blacksmith was accidently killed 1 year later according to Supreme Court of WA dated 5/11/1921. Children appear to be Elsie, William, Rita and Nellie reading obits and family notices. The mother was of Subiaco same place as the birth and death of Elsie and John's daughter.
 
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