William Williams at St Keverne

[Genie1]

Looking in the 1871 census for Eliza's sister Ann I looked at the actual scan and I may have been wrong in thinking that Betsy and Elizabeth Jane weren't sisters
The whole lot of them are living next door to each other .
Mother Alice is with daughter Elizabeth J Williams and Elizabeth is next door to mother.
Sister Ann that married Henry Miles is just down the road.
I think that Betsy's name was Elizabeth and Betsy was a nickname.
RG10/2305/24/3/17
Helford, Manaccan, Helston.
That will teach me to look at other pages.
Good job that I didn't delete Betsy from that family

 

[Genie1]

I have decided to stick with this instead of opening another with William Williams.
I have managed to find a lot of information about William's wife Alice Harris family.
For once something was easy.
William and his wife etc are living at Troon, St Keverne, Helston.
HO107/138/2/13/19/331.
His birth is 1796 and Alice's is 1800.
William died in 1847. Alice's birth year stays much the same.
Which age should I go for?
There 3 in 1792. 1 in 1793 and 1 in 1794 or do I go for those in 1802 and 1803.
What a shame he wasn't in the 1851 census.
Maybe I should get the death certificate.

 

[Genie1]

Got the death certificate and William dies January 1847 age 55. I presume his birth would have been 1792.
Parents could be
John and Amy.
Solomon and Martha.
John and Mary.
Added:
I should have said that his son-in-law John Richards registered the death.

 

[Archie's Mum]

Any hints in the names of their children?

 

[Genie1]

Any hints in the names of their children?

I have only found five children for William and Alice and at the moment and with no Solomon or Amy it appears that his parents are John and Mary.
William and Alice have Eliza bapt 1825,Elizabeth Jane bapt 1827,Francis James bapt 1832. Plus John Williams bapt 1836 and William bapt 1839.
There are gaps between some of the children.
Five years between Elizabeth Jane 1827 and Francis James 1832. Three years between Francis James and John Williams.

 

[Genie1]

If William is correct then his parents married at St Keverne 1 January 1787.
John Williams was a widower and MaryVivian was a widow and the witnesses were Benjamin Barker and John Richards. Cornwallopc

 

[Genie1]

Unsure as to the parents of William Williams married to Alice Harris I decided to go over what I had found in the past.
1881 has daughter Elizabeth Jane with her husband etc plus mother Alice living at Cottage, Manaccan, Helston. RG11/2314/26/5/158.
There is a visitor called Ann Charles who was a widow born 1799 at St Keverne.
I traced Ann in 1851 and 1871 (no idea where she is in 1861 at the moment)
and if I am correct I have found Ann married to James Charles. 11 Dec 1842 at St Keverne. She was a widow but her father was Solomon Williams.
Cornwallopc then showed that Ann was a daughter of Solomon and Martha.
There were 5 children baptised to this couple altogether between 1782 and 1803 and William baptised 1892 is the first and that is the same year of birth as William that married Alice
Is William that married Alice the son of Solomon and Martha?
At the moment I don't know who the mother of William Richards that married Elizabeth Jane Williams is. His father is John. Hopefully she wasn't a Williams as well.

 

[Genie1]

There were 5 children baptised to this couple altogether between 1782 and 1803 and William baptised 1892 is the first and that is the same year of birth as William that married Alice.
I Should have said the first was born 1792 not 1782.

 

[Genie1]

I think that there is good chance that the Ann Charles visiting the family in 1881 and was an aunt, must have been Elizabeth Jane's (nee Williams )aunt and therefore William William's sister.
Seeing that Ann Charles father was Solomon Williams on her marriage certifcate both she and William were the children of Solomon and Martha.
Ann was married twice as her first husband died a short time after their marriage,

 

[Genie1]

I am still in a muddle with this family and I am thinking that Eliza is not a daughter of William and Alice.
There isn't a baptisms of an Eliza anywhere that I can find. with mother Alice.
There is a baptism for an Eliza on the 23rd January 1825 with father William and mother Mary at Helston, Wesleyan Methodist.
Born 22nd December 1824 .
Her father is a cordwainer. Is she the one?

 

[Genie1]

Need help in finding William Williams and wife Mary plus daughter Eliza in 1841 in the Helston area or thereabouts.
Marriage 1845:
John Richards-Polpidnick and Eliza Richards-Troon.
Witnesses were Henry Williams and James Mitchell.
Most of Eliza and John Richards children were born in the St Keverne and Mawgan -in-Menage area and Wendron.
The family ended up in Illogan.
I don't think that Alice is Eliza's mother.

 

[Genie1]

William Williams baptised 3rd February 1828 at Helston with father a cordwainer which is the same occupation as Eliza's fatheer.

 

[MollyMay]

1841 census - Troon, St Keverne -HO107 piece 138 book 2 folio 13 page 19
William Williams age 45 (1796) Ag Lab
ALICE Wiliams age 40 (1801)
Eliza Williams age 15 (1826)
Francis Williams age 9 (1832)
John Williams age 4 (1837)
William Williams age 1 (1840)

This looks like the Eliza who married in 1845

 

[Genie1]

1841 census - Troon, St Keverne -HO107 piece 138 book 2 folio 13 page 19
William Williams age 45 (1796) Ag Lab
ALICE Wiliams age 40 (1801)
Eliza Williams age 15 (1826)
Francis Williams age 9 (1832)
John Williams age 4 (1837)
William Williams age 1 (1840)

This looks like the Eliza who married in 1845

That has been found before but Alice doesn't have a daughter named Eliza.
The only daughter she has is Elizabeth Jane which is why I wonder if I am on the wrong track with Alice as a mother.
Throughout the daughter is known as Elizabeth Jane and never Eliza.
I wonder where William Williams and Mary are.

 

[Genie1]

William Williams baptised 3rd February 1828 at Helston with father a cordwainer which is the same occupation as Eliza's fatheer.

i have found William Williams the cordwainer in 1851.He is a widower living at Meneage Street ,Helston,with his family.

 

[MollyMay]

I think this is the family in 1841, living in Meneage Street.
William's occupation is labourer
HO107 piece139 book7 folio20 page33
Next door is a Toy family (?g.dau Eliza Toy b1843 on the 1851 census )

 

[Genie1]

I think this is the family in 1841, living in Meneage Street.
William's occupation is labourer
HO107 piece139 book7 folio20 page33
Next door is a Toy family (?g.dau Eliza Toy b1843 on the 1851 census )

1841 his wife is Mary.
In 1851 there is a granddaughter Toy living with William. I haven't worked out who the mother is but maybe it is the Eliza living with the Toy's in 1841.
When Eliza marriied John Richards she had her father's occupation as Labourer. Her residence was Troon therefore she must be a daughter of Alice.
St Keverne one was Ag Lab and the Helston one was Labourer.
Eliza's birth throughout the years is 1827 so maybe she knocked off Jane and just called herself Eliza.
Eliza and John had a daughter they named Alice Ellen born 1864 and died 1873.
So I shall have to add Alice and company to the family tree now.

 

[Genie1]

Eliza's birth throughout the years is 1827 so maybe she knocked off Jane and just called herself Eliza.

Why, oh why, were there rwo William Williams to contend with
Previous posts says that Alice is with daughter Elizabeth Jane so that knocks my idea of Eliza dropping the name Jane,,on the head. So no further forth

 

[Genie1]

I think this is the family in 1841, living in Meneage Street.
William's occupation is labourer
HO107 piece139 book7 folio20 page33
Next door is a Toy family (?g.dau Eliza Toy b1843 on the 1851 census )

I can't find a marriage for an Eliza Williams and a Toy at the moment.
There is a birth for Elizabeth Toy in the Dec qtr 1843 with mother's surname Williams.
The Toy family are John and Susan.
Cornwall opc Helston baptisms have a number of Toy's with father John and mother Susanna and one of them is Eliza baptisd born September baptised October 1821. Don't know for sure that they are the 1841 next door neighbours of William and Mary.

 

[Genie1]

I shall have to accept that Eliza born 1825 ,saying that her residence is Troon , St Keverne ,when she married John Richards and that her father is William and mother is Alice.
It seems that Eliza wasn't baptised.
Seeing that Eliza was with her mother and father in 1841 where was Elizabeth Jane?