No Show on 1939 register

[Smokey]

I have the Axam family and the 3 I would expect on the 1939 register don't seem to appear at all

Marriages Sep 1931
Axam George Dempsey Greenwich 1d 2477

Dempsey Jane Axam Greenwich 1d 2477

Births Dec 1932
Axam Jane P Dempsey Greenwich 1d 1048

Births Mar 1934
Axam Dorothy M Dempsey Greenwich 1d 1061

Deaths Mar 1935
Axam Dorothy M 1 Woolwich 1d 1193

Births Jun 1942
Axam Shirley Dempsey Greenwich 1d 836

Deaths Mar 1965
Trower Shirley 22 Dartford 5B 508

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, not difficult these days

Roger

 

[MollyMay]

Well, can't find them either - do you have any addresses from the children's baptisms that might give a clue?
I assume George was born 1910 to Arthur and Matilda - you don't happen to know his dob?

 

[AnnB]

George and Jane, along with a redacted entry, can be found at 37 Escreet Grove, Woolwich. FMP have the surname as ARAM. I found them by going to the 1939 Register record set and searching for A*am with the location stipulated as Greenwich. They also have Jane recorded as Joyce

I’ll submit a correction to FMP.

 

[MollyMay]

It doesn't help when Jane has been transcribed as Joyce
Well found Ann

 

[Smokey]

Well, can't find them either - do you have any addresses from the children's baptisms that might give a clue?
I assume George was born 1910 to Arthur and Matilda - you don't happen to know his dob?

I couldn't find any baptisms, only GRO entries, Molly, as for George I hadn't got that far back yet. It was Shirley Axom that started all this as she is my niece's maternal granndmother, thank you for the help

George and Jane, along with a redacted entry, can be found at 37 Escreet Grove, Woolwich. FMP have the surname as ARAM. I found them by going to the 1939 Register record set and searching for A*am with the location stipulated as Greenwich. They also have Jane recorded as Joyce

I’ll submit a correction to FMP.

Thank you for finding that out Ann, I had tried with name varients switched on but still had no results, I will chase that down.
Again many thanks to both of you for your help, it really is appreciated
Roger

 

[MollyMay]

As I have them to hand -

1911 census - 46 Stanley Road, Stratford
Arthur (that's what the original says) Axam b1880
Matilda b1881
George b1910
Mary King MIL b1857 wid
Horace King b 1896 BIL

1921 census at 8 Kate's Place N. Woolwich -
Arthur is now Samuel George b1880
Matilda Margaret b1881
George b1910
Alice b1912
Horace b1915
Arthur b 1917
William b1920

Samuel George Axam married Matilda Margaret King 1900

 

[Smokey]

It apppears we have possibly George's brother Arthur living at the same address in 1939

 

[Archie's Mum]

If the 1939 register was taken on 29th September then Matilda Margaret was buried on 4th September at Greenwich. Arthur Samuel buried in 1941. Is this Arthur/Samuel George? If so then the family seem to change their names!

 

[Smokey]

If the 1939 register was taken on 29th September then Matilda Margaret was buried on 4th September at Greenwich. Arthur Samuel buried in 1941. Is this Arthur/Samuel George? If so then the family seem to change their names!

Thanks Sue, the name changes had been bothering me too especially as there is another Samuel George flloating around! However it looks like he was still Arthur in 1928
Arthur Axam
Kentish Independent 06 January 1928

https://www.

findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL/0001018/19280106&page=0019&article=212&stringtohighlight=arthur%20axam

(hope I have split the link correctly, don't want the naughty step )

I also found this:
1939 register
William Axan 04 Jul 1920 Male Baker's Porter & Clerk Single 178 1

Arthur Axam 10 Feb 1880 Male Bakers Handyman Maintenance Work Heavy Worker Widowed 178 4

50 Fenwick Street, Shooters Hill, Greenwich

RG101/0647C/015/22 Letter Code: AZCA

and young Arthur?

Arthur Axam age 21
Kentish Independent 18 November 1938

https://www.

findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL/0001018/19381118&page=0008&article=146&stringtohighlight=arthur%20axam

Roger

 

[Smokey]

I have found the marriage for Samuel George & Matilda Margaret that MollyMay kindly pointed me to, so far so good, but the I found this:
Marriages Sep 1914
Axam Samuel G Gerrans Islington 1b 448
Gerrans Clara E Axam Islington 1b 448
Try as I might I cannot find an alternative Samuel G or any variations of Arthur birth records but I have dual census records for Axam Samuel G & Samuel George, 1921, 1939. I hope this makes sense , could he be leading a double life?? , also I can find no explanation for Arthur in 1911 census & on the 1939 register as in last post. Confused isn't the word
Now looking at Electoral Registers
Roger

 

[Smokey]

As I have them to hand -

1911 census - 46 Stanley Road, Stratford
Arthur (that's what the original says) Axam b1880
Matilda b1881
George b1910
Mary King MIL b1857 wid
Horace King b 1896 BIL

1921 census at 8 Kate's Place N. Woolwich -
Arthur is now Samuel George b1880
Matilda Margaret b1881
George b1910
Alice b1912
Horace b1915
Arthur b 1917
William b1920

Samuel George Axam married Matilda Margaret King 1900

I thought I would try to trace Mary King, so I looked at the Mmn for Matilda & Horace and came up with the following results:

KING, MATILDA MARGARET GUY
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 343

KING, HORACE LEOPOLD GUY
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 360

I cannot find a Mary Guy marrying a King between 1872 & 1881 anywhere This Family is slowly driving me bonkers if anyone can help I would be most grateful
Roger

 

[Smokey]

I also found this:

1891 Census 5, Broad Yard, Islington

William H King 1857
Mary C King 1853
Amelia A King 1876
Mary C King 1878
Matilda M King 1881
Esther E King 1887
Constance M King 1889
Lily B King 1891
Amelia A (Mother) King 1841

All the children have Mmn of Guy
If it is any help
Roger

 

[Chimp]

1881 census 6, Swan Yard, Islington

William King, Head, Married, 1853, City of London, Middlesex, England
Mary King, Wife, Married, 1853, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Amelia King, Daughter, 1875, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Mary King, Daughter, 1878, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Matilda King, Daughter, Single, 1881, Middlesex, England
Amelia Seal, Mother, Widow, 1838, City of London, Middlesex, England
John Seal, Brother, Single, 1862, City of London, Middlesex, England
Ernest Grey, Brother in law, Single, 1857, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

 

[Daft Bat]

Ernest Grey, Brother in law, Single, 1857, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

Interesting if this is Mary's brother.

Mind you, I have also looked for a marriage for William and Mary with Mary's surname checked as GUY, GAY, GREY, GRAY etc...

Nothing. Nada. Zippo. Zilch. Maybe they never wed...

 

[MollyMay]

Interesting if this is Mary's brother.

It looks like it is
Mary Clara Guy's birth reg June qtr 1853 mmn Simpson St Pancras 1b 115
Robert Capon Guy married Mary Simpson Sept qtr 1848 St Pancras 1 - 355
1861 Census 7 Pitt Street St Pancras RG09/101/39/71
Robert Guy b1829 Ashbourne Derbyshire - Tailor
Mary Guy b1831 Italy (british subject)
+ 5 children all born London including Ernest 1851 and Mary 1853

I have been trying to find out why Wiliam's mother is Amelia Seal - I cannot find a King/Seal marriage
John Seal's birth is reg with mmn of Wing (possibly a mistranscription of King?)

 

[Smokey]

Thank you all so much, these two families 1 with dual names & possibly dual wives, and the other with names that don't tie up (yet!) are a right pandoras box, as Sue said

If the 1939 register was taken on 29th September then Matilda Margaret was buried on 4th September at Greenwich. Arthur Samuel buried in 1941. Is this Arthur/Samuel George? If so then the family seem to change their names!

I think that may apply to the Kings as well
Could Amelia have remarried in the 9 yrs between William & John?
Roger

 

[AnnB]

In the Admission and Discharge records for Homerton Workhouse on Ancestry in 1871, there are four entries for Amelia, William and John Seal. Here's part of the first one

This is for an admission on the 2nd January 1871. The other three are for the 21st January, 13th July and the 2nd September. They are all give roughly the same information except for the September one, where Amelia claims to be married instead of widowed If this is the correct family, then could it be that Amelia never married the father of William and John, and then lived with William King without being married, with William taking the King surname? I have tried to find any more information about their time in Homerton Workhouse, but had no luck as yet. John appears to have been sent to Hanwell School when he left the workhouse, whereas William went with his mother. Having said all of that, where the name Guy comes in, I have no idea - sorry if this is just a red herring

 

[Smokey]

I have been trying to find out why Wiliam's mother is Amelia Seal - I cannot find a King/Seal marriage
John Seal's birth is reg with mmn of Wing (possibly a mistranscription of King?)

Molly, it's very possibly a mistranscription as William is recorded as

KING, WILLIAM KING
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in CUCKFIELD UNION Volume 02B Page 128

Roger

 

[Smokey]

In the Admission and Discharge records for Homerton Workhouse on Ancestry in 1871, there are four entries for Amelia, William and John Seal. Here's part of the first one
View attachment 15329
This is for an admission on the 2nd January 1871. The other three are for the 21st January, 13th July and the 2nd September. They are all give roughly the same information except for the September one, where Amelia claims to be married instead of widowed If this is the correct family, then could it be that Amelia never married the father of William and John, and then lived with William King without being married, with William taking the King surname? I have tried to find any more information about their time in Homerton Workhouse, but had no luck as yet. John appears to have been sent to Hanwell School when he left the workhouse, whereas William went with his mother. Having said all of that, where the name Guy comes in, I have no idea - sorry if this is just a red herring

Ann, don't worry about the red herrings, all info is useful at the moment I must admit these last 2 weeks I've sometimes felt I was swimming in a sea of red herrings wit these 2 families
Roger

 

[MollyMay]

KING, WILLIAM KING
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in CUCKFIELD UNION Volume 02B Page 128

I am not so sure this is the right birth - Amelia gives her yob as either 1841 or 1838, so a birth early in 1850's seems unlikely
William gives his yob as 1853 and 1857 (more likely if Amelia's yob is anywhere near correct)
There is a birth of William Henry King Sept qtr 1858 City of London 1c - 57 with a mmn of Nicholson - but there is no guarantee this is your William (yet another red herring )