Wellin? Welwyn?

thalauafu

thalauafu

R.I.P.
I have just discovered a new addition to my family who, according to the 1851 census was born in Wellin, Herts. I am presuming that this is Welwyn (now Welwyn Garden City), but cannot find any parish records or mention of any. My relation was probably born in 1793, although a death registration that I believe might be her would have her born in 1786. Her name was Margaret Turpin, nee Gardner. If anyone can help guide me in the right direction to find a record of her baptism I would be most grateful!
Cheers, Diana
 
thalauafu said:
I am presuming that this is Welwyn (now Welwyn Garden City)
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Nope - Welwyn Garden City was only built in 1920 and is completely separate from 'Old' Welwyn. ;)

According to GENUKI:
The Parish Registers for the periods:-

Baptisms - 1559-1978
Marriages - 1559-1741, 1754-1988
Burials - 1558-1934
Bishop's Transcripts - 1604-1869

are deposited at Hertfordshire Record Office, County Hall, Hertford, SG13 8DE.

Chris, who runs one of our linked websites (Hertfordshire Genealogy) is an absolute mine of information about Hertfordshire. It would be worth having a rummage on there (Welwyn is listed in the Place Names) or drop Chris an email. Bear in mind that he is not very swift about replies, but will get to it. :)
 
Thank you so much for this Jan. I will have a look at the Hertfordshire site and if necessary, will contact Chris. This could give me a big break as I believe this Margaret is the sister of a ggg grandfather who is an enigma at the moment! I would dearly love to find Margaret and her brother (if he is) lurking there! Cheers, Diana
 
Hi Diana, I was at County Hall in Hertford, where the archives are located, last Friday for a wedding. The archives are located in the sane building as the Registry offices. We were there half an hour before the ceremony began and within touching distance if the local history room but for some reason my family wouldn't allow me to pop in to check a couple of things! Very unreasonable I thought. Anyway, I'm not that far away from HALS so let me know if I can be of any help.
I agree with Jan, Hertfordshire Genealogy is an absolute mine of
information .

Lesley k
 
Eve said:
Hi Diana, I was at County Hall in Hertford, where the archives are located, last Friday for a wedding. The archives are located in the sane building as the Registry offices. We were there half an hour before the ceremony began and within touching distance if the local history room but for some reason my family wouldn't allow me to pop in to check a couple of things! Very unreasonable I thought. Anyway, I'm not that far away from HALS so let me know if I can be of any help.
I agree with Jan, Hertfordshire Genealogy is an absolute mine of
information .

Lesley k
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Oh Lesley, Your blood is worth bottling! ;) I have spent the past two days searching and trying to work out how to access the parish records for Welwyn (nothing on Family Search, nor IGI, nor on Find My Past, nor Ancestry! including trying to get onto Rootsweb Hertfordshire-L Mailing List, but for some reason I don't understand they don't seem to have received my subscription.

If you are going back there sometime I would dearly love you to see if you could find two people.... possibly (but not definitely) brother and sister!

1. Margaret Gardner, born abt. 1793 (according to census entries)

2. Samuel Tims Gardner, probably born about 1782.

If I am not stretching the friendship too far :(, and you DO find both of the above, I am expecting a marriage between a Gardner and a Tims, but this is only supposition, and this might be too difficult to find as the date is unknown!

Both of the above moved to London and married there.

Thanking you most sincerely in anticipation, Diana
P S I agree that your family were most unreasonable not letting you loose amongst the ancient tomes in the County Hall! :D After all the wedding could have waited a while if you found something, couldn't it? ;)
 
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PS again! I did read everything I could find on the Hertfordshire Genealogy website and planned to write to Chris shortly, but now I will await news from Lesley before I do so.
 
Hi Diana
Might be worth contacting Chris to get the ball rolling. My sons wedding is in a couple of weeks time (in Welwyn Garden City!) so will be tied up for a little while, but give me a nudge in a few weeks if you haven't heard from me and let me have any other info you have (e.g. census refs .. )and I can get over to Hertford and have a look.
 
Eve said:
Hi Diana
Might be worth contacting Chris to get the ball rolling. My sons wedding is in a couple of weeks time (in Welwyn Garden City!) so will be tied up for a little while, but give me a nudge in a few weeks if you haven't heard from me and let me have any other info you have (e.g. census refs .. )and I can get over to Hertford and have a look.
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Okay will do! Will look up the census I have tomorrow and let you know. Thanks a million. No hurry though.....they've been hiding from me for at least 20 years, so a while longer is not going to make a lot of difference! :)
 
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The parish registers for the period you are interested in are on FMP but looking through them there is not a baptism for Samuel nor one for Margaret for the period 1777 to 1800. There is one in 1777 for a Dinah which you can access for yourself and then move forward page by page on the actual register - perhaps the family moved from Welwyn during this period but then moved back when Margaret was very young and thus she always thought her birthplace was Welwyn?

Janet
 
Diana,

Have you noticed the Orders of Removal record for Margaret TURPIN on Ancestry dated 1860. It gives you some information about her that you may not have. Looking at the 1851 census record for William & Margaret, you may find that neither were born in Welwyn. The enumerator has put ditto for born in Herts from the previous household but not under the place name of Welwyn.

Had you also noticed that there is a William GARDNER, aged 10 born in the County, shown as living in the same house as William & Margaret TURPIN but a different household in the 1841 census. Could he be related to Margaret in some way. Also one of the witnesses at William & Margaret's marriage in 1817 was a Mary GARDNER - perhaps another relative?

Janet
 
janetbooth said:
Diana,

Have you noticed the Orders of Removal record for Margaret TURPIN on Ancestry dated 1860. It gives you some information about her that you may not have. Looking at the 1851 census record for William & Margaret, you may find that neither were born in Welwyn. The enumerator has put ditto for born in Herts from the previous household but not under the place name of Welwyn.

Had you also noticed that there is a William GARDNER, aged 10 born in the County, shown as living in the same house as William & Margaret TURPIN but a different household in the 1841 census. Could he be related to Margaret in some way. Also one of the witnesses at William & Margaret's marriage in 1817 was a Mary GARDNER - perhaps another relative?

Janet
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Hi Janet,

Thank you very much indeed for all the sleuthing that you have done on my behalf. I certainly have NOT seen the Orders of Removal for Margaret Turpin, but will do so as soon as I have sent this winging it's way through cyber space to you! It had never crossed my mind, even though I could not find her after the 1851 census. That is why this forum is so wonderful.....other people can sometimes look 'outside the square' as they say!

I did question the ditto marks for William and Margaret, and even wondered if they were not even born in Hertfordshire, but that the enumerator had not written their correct place(s) of birth so just put ditto, maybe being tired or lazy that day! However, you are right about there only being ditto under Hertfordshire! Duh! That sheds a whole different light on things!

I most certainly HAVE noticed the William Gardner living with Margaret and William Turpin in 1841! Without doubt he is 'my' William! That is the reason I am now researching Margaret, as, when I noticed that she was nee Gardner, I guessed by her age in 1851 that she might be his Aunt, and therefore would give me the breakthrough that I so desperately need to break down my brick wall regarding my William Gardner's birth(1832), and to tie him to Samuel Tims Gardner, his father. If Margaret and Samuel were brother and sister, that would prove his paternity to the Samuel Tims Gardner marrying in 1804 at St. Anne's Soho I think.

It is 5am here in Oz, so before I do any more must have my morning cuppa and then look at the Removal orders you suggested. Will get back to you later. By the way, all my Lea (my maiden name) ancestors lived for many generations in Sandbach, one of my great Uncles moving to Congleton where he was a Baker and Confectioner! I have very strong ties to that little corner of the world! Cheers Diana
 
No thanks - I just wanted to see the original as I suddenly had a mad thought that it could have been Welham - as in Welham Green, which is a village in Hertfordshire. But sadly not. :(

Thanks,
 
It's going to be a real bummer if the enumerator got it all wrong, or even if it IS Hertfordshire, but place unknown! Oh well, as a once famous politician here in Oz once said....."Life wasn't meant to be easy" (I think he borrowed it from someone, but I know not who!):eek:
 
thalauafu said:
Oh Lesley, Your blood is worth bottling! ;) I have spent the past two days searching and trying to work out how to access the parish records for Welwyn (nothing on Family Search, nor IGI, nor on Find My Past, nor Ancestry! including trying to get onto Rootsweb Hertfordshire-L Mailing List, but for some reason I don't understand they don't seem to have received my subscription.

If you are going back there sometime I would dearly love you to see if you could find two people.... possibly (but not definitely) brother and sister!

1. Margaret Gardner, born abt. 1793 (according to census entries)

2. Samuel Tims Gardner, probably born about 1782.

If I am not stretching the friendship too far :(, and you DO find both of the above, I am expecting a marriage between a Gardner and a Tims, but this is only supposition, and this might be too difficult to find as the date is unknown!

Both of the above moved to London and married there.

Thanking you most sincerely in anticipation, Diana
P S I agree that your family were most unreasonable not letting you loose amongst the ancient tomes in the County Hall! :D After all the wedding could have waited a while if you found something, couldn't it? ;)
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Greetings! I am confused! I answered this letter by calling you Lesley as it looked like that is how you signed off, but now I have noticed that your profile says you are Eve!!!! Which is right please, and my apologies if I got it wrong! No I wasn't on the turps, I promise! :oops: Cheers, Diana
 
thalauafu said:
Greetings! I am confused! I answered this letter by calling you Lesley as it looked like that is how you signed off, but now I have noticed that your profile says you are Eve!!!! Which is right please, and my apologies if I got it wrong! No I wasn't on the turps, I promise! :oops: Cheers, Diana
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As Lesley is not currently online, I will explain.

Eve is Lesley's user-name. ;)
 
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