Device or Coat of Arms?

[Daft Bat]

A friend of mine has a rather beautiful challice but has no idea as to how it has ended up in his family.

It is made by Barber & Smith, 36 Cornhill and is dated London 1867.

Attached are a couple of photographs that show a coat of arms or it could be called a device. He has contacted the College of Arms, but they do not recognise it. However, they are prepared to undertake some research - for a fee...

Meanwhile, I thought that I would ask the very knowledgeable members here to see if they had any ideas.

Over to you, my friends!

 

[mugwortismy cat]

Well a wild boar may symbolise bravery and fierceness in battle ... I know, doesn't help

The bird might be a crow for a settled quiet life, or a raven for knowledge/durable resistance etc; doesn't quite look like a parrot which would indicate service in a tropical land

of course the sword is a symbol of military honour

So we are looking for a person brave and honourable in battle who maybe served in the tropics?

 

[patten-walsh]

And the "boar " is standing on the letter D which is drawn around him.

 

[mugwortismy cat]

And the "boar " is standing on the letter D which is drawn around him.

Well spotted

 

[AnnB]

Along with the 'D' could the other symbol in the background topped with three crosses be an 'L' ?

Ann

 

[mugwortismy cat]

Yes could be, still think it's also a sword, and the upright of the D -- so doing triple duty

So someone with initials DL or LD ... in the military ...?

 

[mugwortismy cat]

erm, does the birdy thing have feet? A footless swallow (martlet) is significant ...

Martlet

The martlet, or heraldic swallow, is a bird perceived as swift and elegant and is a device for someone prompt and ready in the dispatch of his business. It may also represent one who has to subsist on the wings of his virtue and merit alone.

The martlet signifies nobility acquired through bravery, prowess or intelligence. On English arms it was a mark of cadency signifying the fourth son, for whom there was little doubt that there would be no land left for him to inherit.

Interestingly, this heraldic symbol was a perpetuation of the popular belief that the swallow has no feet. This is supported by the fact that one never does see swallow standing, but regardless.

The martlet is consistently drawn without feet in heraldry. If the feet are drawn the symbol becomes a swallow, which is less common than the martlet.

The swallow is a vanguard of spring and represents a bearer of good news.

from http://www. hallofnames.org.uk/heraldry-symbols-what-they-mean

There is also a gannet or footless duck but usually without a beak, basically meaning is similar

 

[AnnB]

I thought the birdie was footless and had come across the martlet. Theory - two families, one with the initial D, one with the initial L, one with a boar as their device and the other with a martlet. A marriage takes place and the two devices are combined set on the initials. The piece of silver was engraved to celebrate the marriage.

Ann

 

[Daft Bat]

Thank you for your ideas. I am passing them on to my friend and we will see if there could be anyone in his family history for whom they might be relevant.

 

[GrannyBarb]

Beautiful workmanship! Does it mean anything that the martlet is across (inside?) the boar's belly and not riding "piggyback?"

 

[Blackmogs]

This is a fab thread! Ab so lutely FAB! You lot do love a challenge.

 

[Findem]

Well if all else fails there's always BBC's Antiques Roadshow, or how about sending a photo of the chalice and the two photos on here plus a photo showing the Hallmarks, to the Antiques Roadshow website.

 

[Lusmum]

In a Jewish wedding a chalice is used for bride and groom to drink from as a symbol of the cup of life...don't know if that helps....

 

[Libby]

The sword mentioned above looks like something called a "cross crosslet fitchy". If it is a possibly a cross rather than a sword, could the chalice have a religious connection?

 

[mugwortismy cat]

Well done Libby, also spelled fitchee (with or without an accent), apparently a combination of cross + sword = unshakeable faith

 

[euryalus]

It's not military, and I don't think it is Masonic - most likely a religious symbol of some kind, the triple cross being very distinctive. Could it be the badge of a paricular saint?

 

[mugwortismy cat]

I find the idea of a saints badge intriguing. However, given the initials included in the design I think it more likely to be a personal device

 

[euryalus]

I did not "see" the possible "DL" at first, and did not think there was a sword - the triple-cross object being (in my mind at least) a cross. The design looks like something from the Celtic or Saxon periods, rather than the Middle Ages, which makes it even more mysterious.

 

[euryalus]

If indeed the badge is of Celtic design, could the cup have been something to do with a Druidic lodge? (The wild boar was of considerable significance in the Celtic period).

 

[AnnB]

OK, two other things I have just noticed. The boar has vertical hatching which, in heraldry, means 'Gules' or red. The martlet is on a banner which is spotted which means 'Or' or gold/yellow. So we have a red boar with a yellow banner over its back and a martlet on the banner.......(and, no, I know very little about heraldry, but I do have a book )

Ann