Was she married?

LeslieS

LeslieS

Well-Known Member
Hi I just joined and thought I would ask for an opinion as to whether Mary Ann Miller was ever married. She is shown on the 1911 census as visiting her daughter and her husband. Since about 1861 she had been living with George Miller in Battersea, London, and is stated as Married and Wife on previous census returns. I checked their childrens birth certificates to confirm her previous name, which states it as Cleveland. I think it probable that they never married as I can not find any marriage record, rather lived together as man and wife. She was born in 1840 in Chelsea, Middlesex.

Of course, I might have just missed their marriage record or it is lost or?, but then when I saw her on the 1911 census it really got me wondering. In the column next to her age is what looks like a blue W (George had died by this time), or it could be UN. I assume this is stating marital status as signified by the blue M above right. Also, the red X in the years married column. Just below this columb at the bottom is written in red 0 (zero).

Am I right to assume that George Miller and Mary Ann Cleveland were likely never married? They are my 2x great granparents. I'd appreciate any other opinions. Leslie.

Mary Ann Miller_1911 Census.jpg
 
Interesting. Could that be a 'W' for 'widowed'?

I asked the very same question about my great grandparents back in September, and have arrived at the conclusion that they probably weren't married, given that I'd hunted for a marriage record for years without success, and also that my g-grandfather had a second 'marriage' to someone else where I could prove he definitely wasn't married.

o_O
 
I am inclined to believe George and Mary Ann were not married as I too have searched for years for a marriage record. The blue mark could well be 'W' or, to me a 'UN'. That red 'X' though and the red '0' (zero).......I must stop thinking about it and accept It will likely remain a mystery and a source of frustration :(.
 
Do you think perhaps one or other of them were already married to someone else? I don't want to muddy the water, but think I'm about to :rolleyes:.

For your consideration.

George Miller married Ellen Coe Smith, Sept qrt 1851, Hastings, vol 7, page 529.

Here they are in 1861, RG 9; Piece: 561; Folio: 39; Page: 71
Hastings, St Mary Magdalen. However George is entered as born Congresbury. not very near to Ilchester! Could he have used Ilchester for later census perhaps.

George Miller 30, carpenter, Somersetshire, Congresbury
Ellen Coe Miller 28, London Islington
Elizabeth Coe 72, aunt, wo stone mason, Eastbourne
Mary Willis 17, servant

In 1871 there's no George, Ellen is with two children
RG10; Piece: 1031; Folio: 117; Page: 46
St Mary in the Castle Hastings (same address as 1861 - 30, White Rock ?????

Ellen C Miller 38, head, married, lodging house keeper, Bow Middlesex
James C Miller 18, son, clerk, Hastings
Ellen E Miller 7, daughter, Hastings
Mary J Clapson 17, servant.

1881, RG11; Piece: 1024; Folio: 54; Page: 33; (again no husband)
2 Wellington House Wellington Sq, St Mary in the Castle, Hastings

Ellen C. Miller 40, head, married, lodging house keeper, St Lukes Middlesex
Ellen E. Miller 17, dau, Hastings
George F. Miller 15, son, Hastings
Rose Barrow 18, servant.

In 1861 James Coe Miller is boarding with a James Elliott in Hooe Sussex
Edward Elliott 47, ag lab, Hooe
Jamima Elliott 45, Catsfield, Sussex
James Coe Miller 8, boarder, Hastings

I haven't definitely pinned young George (1866) down yet in 1871

In 1911, 36 Trinity Square, Lambeth, RG14; Piece: 2045

Ellen Coe Miller 73, widow, 3 children born alive, 3 still living, Nil Independent, London
Ellen Elizabeth Millen 46, dau, spinster, Independent, Hasings
Rose Garbis 18, servant
Robert Lindsay Harper 24, boarder

Still looking for Ellen Coe Miller in 1891 and 1901.
 
1901 indexed as MILLEN, RG13; Piece: 868; Folio: 35; Page: 30
All Saints Hastings

Ellen Millen 68, widow, living on own means, London Bow
Ellen Millen 37, dau, Hastings

1891, Hastings, RG12; Piece: 766; Folio: 79; Page: 3;
Indexed as STILLER on Ancestry

Ellen Coe Stiller 53, widow.
Ellen Elizabeth Stiller 27
George Frederick Stiller 25
 
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Oh do muddy the waters :) I love it!

First here's what I know about George, also his brother James as both families are interconnected.

George and a brother James moved from Ilchester to London sometime after the 1851 census, I think likely early 1860's. James settled briefly in Stepney and married locally in 1863 and had first child in 1864. His next three children were born in Marylebone and baptised one locally and two in Battersea, his brothers parish. Family then moved back to East London and settled in Whitechapel

George settled permanently in Battersea with a Mary Ann (Cleveland). Their first two children (1862 and 1864) were later (1866) baptised in his brothers then parish in Marylebone, the rest in Battersea, apart from their fifth child, my gt grandfather, who was baptised in James' parish, St. George in the East, Whitechapel. Later two of James' children were baptised in George's parish church in Battersea on same day as one of George's children. Another gave an address in same street as George lived when she was married.

At various times George and Mary Ann's children were attending schools in James' parish, along with James' children. I'm fortunate to have all children's (James 10 & George 7) birth and baptism records (all were baptised) and several school records.

In Ilchester James was a cooper, George a carpenter, trades they retained in london. I have all census' apart from 1861 for both families. All children are accounted for till marriage or death. There's much more connection between the two families for them not to be brothers.

So your hard work poses a very interesting question. Where was George before his first child with Mary Ann, in 1862 in Battersea? Oh my goodness, could you have possibly solved the big mystery?

Coincidence, I'm almost sure, but 'Ellen Coe Smith'. Coe is an unusual middle name unless perhaps mothers maiden name, or otherwise family related. George's daughter Harriet married in to a Coe family in 1885.

It's 3.30am here, so I will have to look closer at what you have found later today. Enormous thanks for your time and effort!

My brain is scrambled writting this. Geneology, don't ya just love it :)
 
LeslieS said:
It's 3.30am here, so I will have to look closer at what you have found later today. Enormous thanks for your time and effort!
Click to expand...

It's 3.30 here too in West Yorks, Leslie ;):D

We should both go to bed and sleep on this conundrum, hopefully more can be unearthed tomorrow. It is interesting that 'your' George hasn't been found in 1861; also Ellen Coe Miller has a large age gap between her first born child James Coe Miller (abt. 1853) and her second child Ellen Elizabeth Miller (abt 1864), different fathers perhaps!! Ooh the intrigue :)
 
Oh sugar - I'm not sure he is your George, Lesley, as just found this. It was worth a try though, but I guess it's back to square one :headbang:

HO107; Piece: 1635; Folio: 601; Page: 86;

1851, Hastings St Mary Magdalen
John Miller 50, labourer, NK
Priscilla Miller 48, NK
George Miller 20, labourer, Somerset
Elizabeth Miller 12, Winchester
John Miller 9, Folkstone
Charles Miller 4, Dover
 
Your still up! I went to bed and watched latest two episodes of 'Dickensian' on IPlayer, then couldn't sleep so here I am too o_O

I agree it was worth a shot. The possibility that, if George and Mary Ann didn't marry, it was due to one or both already being married is still a possibility, one that I hadn't considered before and which I'll now bear in mind.

George was born in Northover, 2 miles from Ilchester, the registration district. So, assuming there was no reason to state a place 59 miles away, the marriage to Ellen Coe Smith can't be my George :(

Thanks again for all your effort and time with this. You have planted the possibility of a previous marriage in my mind :eek::)
 
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