Graphologist needed - are these signatures the same?

M

Moff

Well-Known Member
I'm after opinions on whether a couple of signatures I've found in parish records are the same. Marriage John Williams 1804.png

John Williams married Ann Pope. He had a sister called Ann Williams. (Lilly is his father David's mother's maiden name, and appears in some generations as a middle name.).

I believe that John's sister Ann married John Hernaman, and it appears that John's wife Ann (nee Pope) signed as witness. I think that the “Ann” of Ann Pope the bride in 1804 and of Ann Williams the witness in 1805 are the same, and that Ann Lilly Williams the witness in 1804 is the bride of 1805. Does anyone else think they are the same?

Marriage Ann Williams 1805.png
 
I would be cautious but I think possibly not. The A of Ann for the 1804 bride and 1805 witness are quite unalike, however using different, unusual pens might have caused this. I would say that the 1805 witness may be a married Williams as her surname doesn't look as if it's regular, with the two l's below the line

Steve
 
Um, I'm not so sure, even taking in to account a different pen. To me with the second signature the Ann's look different and the W in Williams is different in that it leads in to the i and the l's don't have a loop like the first signature.
 
I think not, purely on the flourish on the A in the Ann Pope signature, which is absent on that of Ann Williams.
 
Sis said:
Um, I'm not so sure, even taking in to account a different pen. To me with the second signature the Ann's look different and the W in Williams is different in that it leads in to the i and the l's don't have a loop like the first signature.
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OK I er was comparing the wrong signatures:confused:o_O:oops::rolleyes: Comparing the right signatures I think they are different people, cos ditto to what MollyMay said above plus the n's in Ann are joined on the second one. But then what do I knowo_O:D
 
Sis said:
OK I er was comparing the wrong signatures:confused:o_O:oops::rolleyes: Comparing the right signatures I think they are different people, cos ditto to what MollyMay said above plus the n's in Ann are joined on the second one. But then what do I knowo_O:D
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Not only you confused Sis, me too now :confused:. I was comparing Ann Lilly Williams (witness 1804) to Ann Williams (bride 1805) though I did wonder why she used her full name in 1804 but not in 1805 o_O
 
Mealymoo said:
Not only you confused Sis, me too now :confused:. I was comparing Ann Lilly Williams (witness 1804) to Ann Williams (bride 1805) though I did wonder why she used her full name in 1804 but not in 1805 o_O
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That makes me feel better. Do you think somehow our brains are connected?o_O:rolleyes::D
 
What leads me to think that Ann Pope is the same Ann who witnessed the marriage of John Hernaman and Ann Williams in 1805 is the style of the Ns in Ann – in both cases they are small and neat and go “uphill”. The other signatures, Ann Lilly Williams and Ann Williams as witness at the 1805 wedding, have similar looping curves at the top of the Ns.

Another thing that inclines me towards them being the same is that John Williams and his sister Ann had a brother and their father named David – David Williams was the other witness in 1805.
 
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Moff said:
What leads me to think that Ann Pope is the same Ann who witnessed the marriage of John Hernaman and Ann Williams in 1805 is the style of the Ns in Ann – in both cases they are small and neat and go “uphill”. The other signatures, Ann Lilly Williams and Ann Williams as witness at the 1805 wedding, have similar looping curves at the top of the Ns.
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I, too, was focusing on the 'n's.
 
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