some help needed with Burial interpretation please

My ancestor Robert BENGE was buried 2nd July 1838 age 63 years as recorded on St John the Evangelist, Westminster register.

Recorded in the Bishop's Transcript for St John the Evangelist, Westminster 1838, page 267 (found source: London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 at Ancestry).

My query is this: written near his name are two letters and I don't know what they mean. He is not the only person to be found on this register with such letters near the name; some of them have only one letter near the name.

Can some kind soul please enlighten me, as I have no idea what it indicates, surely something (?)




Thanks in anticipation........

 

Could it be 'home death'? perhaps not looks more personal. have you followed him through BMDs to find an occupation?

In Sth Australian circumstances there is a list of meanings for all BMD initials which I'm sorry I forget, & can't access my discs now.

 

I don't think it means 'home death' Wendy. Elsewhere on the same page are others with yet other letters near their name, see image. I sense that these letters are something to do with the church's own recording methods
with meaning known to them. I was hoping somebody may have come across this before and had been able to discover their meaning.

 

At first I thought that it might be an indication of the persons faith, but then I thought that it may be an indication of where in the cemetery the person was buried. I have been digging through the records that I have to see if I could find any letters next to the name, but none of mine do.

 

I am wondering whether there was a Tax / Fee / Donation made to the Church for burials in this period of time and these letters may indicate the payment of such - but strange letters to use, what could they possible mean:
D for duty(?)
N for nil paid(?)
but what about H D - this has me stumped, the mind boggles....

Of course these are only my speculations and would be very happy to be corrected with the real definitions.

Look forward to hearing ideas from others.

 

Are there any others in the register that you can see? Are there more but different letters or all just as those shown here?

 

Yes there are many others in this particular Bishop's Transcript for St John the Evangelist, Westminster 1838 with letters near the name.

But the only letters used (if my interpretation is correct) are :

D

N

H D

 

Hmmm...I was going with crazycatlady but not too sure now. That being cemetery section.

 

Could it be an abbreviation of occupation or district?. On Australian death certs it has at times mentioned housewife,mariner,widow etc

 

Westminster Parishes of St Margaret and St John (the Evangelist) 'there were two other burial grounds belonging to St Johns, the old and the new, the new ground filled so fast that the parish authorities were obliged to employ the old ground again.
Could the 'N' mean 'the new ground' the 'd' mean 'the old ground' and 'hd' a reuse of the old ground. Just a thought.

burial.magic-nation.co.uk/bgwestminster

Burial Grounds of London

 

Well there's a thought to ponder now. I was not aware of the two burial grounds so it does sound a plausible suggestion, thank you kindly.

 

I can't find any clue as to what these initials stand for - only another mention of them on a blog on the web, where the author asks anyone who knows what they mean to let her know......

It might be worth your while contacting Westminster City Archives and asking them if they can help.
https://www.westminster.gov.uk/contact-archives

Ann

 

Oh well done Terry, I got boggled-eyed trying to find out more about the initials - it makes sense that they probably refer to fees charged

Ann

 

What an intriguing puzzle, which has kept me occupied for a couple of hours! I think I have got an answer now but here are some of my thoughts along the way.

Many of those marked 'N' are stillborn children or tiny babies, or those from the workhouse, so I wondered if that might be nil - for no duty?

Then HD, D, DD might be half duty, duty, and double duty (as already found by Chimp while I have been otherwise occupied). But I did find an HDD which confuses matters. Also ED, EDD and EDDL.

A number of young men all from Rochester Row are marked 'G.G. H.D.' or 'C.G. H.D.'. Eventually I twigged what the G.G. and C.G. meant when I found a couple recorded as G.Gds / C.Gds and being from 'Gds Hospl Rochester Row'. There was a Guards' Hospital, Rochester Row, so G.G. and C.G. must I think be Grenadier Guards and Coldstream Guards.

Next I found the handy The funeral guide; or A correct list of the burial fees, &c. of the various parish and private grounds . . . in the metropolis & five miles round, also the cemeteries near London . . . by John Cauch (1840):

https://
books.google.co.uk/books?id=V9oDAAAAQAAJ

which has this table showing the various fees:

from which it seems likely that HD is Half Dues and ED is Early Dues.

Googling for more about Early Dues I hit upon some Parliamentary Papers with statistics on burial fees. The page for St John the Evangelist makes it clear what many of the abbreviations mean:

https://
books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZvhDAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA55

even explaining the mysterious EDDL (early double duty in lead).

 

I have a forebear buried here in 1838 and I've never worked out the significance of these abbreviations/initials.

These abbreviations don't seem to have been used in the Burial Register until a new register was started on 17 October 1825. Interestingly the previous register has 2 entries for 17th October 1825 and none of these abbreviations are used at all for those and yet the third burial that day was entered in the new register and is denoted N. (Bishop's Transcripts are on Ancestry and the original registers are on FMP under 'Westminster Burials'). Unfortunately the original register for burials before 17 October aren't on FMP and so it's not possible to check online as to whether the abbreviations appeared in the previous register, but I suspect they didn't.

The use of these abbreviations had petered out by 31st October 1825 but restarted on 1st January 1826.

It's a shame we can't see the pre-entry pages of these registers to see if there is a note that explains the abbreviations.

The 'new' Burial Ground on Horseferry Road came into use in June 1823 when the old one, adjacent to it, was immediately closed**. It's marked here on an 1862 map and is now a park.

http://www.
motco.com/map/81006/SeriesSearchPlatesFulla.asp?mode=query&artist=390&other=696&x=11&y=11


http://www.
londonremembers.com/memorials/st-john-the-evangelist-garden


**http://www.archive.org/stream/stjohnevangelist00smit#page/122/mode/2up

 

Should have checked before I posted but I was too busy rootling around - well done Huncamunca! There's a sentence in the history of St John's (page 123) that says, "By this time [June 1823] the number of military funerals had become considerable, owing to the existence of the three soldiers' hospitals in the parish" - which fits very nicely with Huncamunca's findings.

http://www.archive.org/stream/stjohnevangelist00smit#page/122/mode/2up

 

Always there for us Jane.