1841 census look up help

The Artful Dodger said:
Much of the responses on this thread are tending to convince me that the Wiltshire Archivist - who by their own admission - are adding more confusion than resolution.

Can, somehow, I post edited pieces from the original letter - June 12, 2014 - and the reply I received today - which when combined with my original thread - about Mary Draper - a sad life show why this may - in their opinion be an issue that will never be resolved?
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Don't see why not. Only the relevant sections would be best. :)
 
Doug said:
Don't see why not. Only the relevant sections would be best. :)
Click to expand...

Excerpts from letter of 12 June 2014.
"Mary daughter of John & Elizabeth DRAPER was baptised 2 July 1797 in West Lavington [copy enclosed]. Her siblings were Sarah[1795], James [1795] and John [1801]. However this Mary went on to marry John CHAPMAN on 7 August 1831 in West Lavington [copy enclosed], their children were Jemima [1834], Frederick [1846], John [1848] and Julia [1851] so it cannot have been this Mary because Thomas FANNING died in 1842.

I did search the surrounding parishes of Little Cheverell, Potterne, Wilsford, Rushall, Upavon, Imber and Tilshead without any luck except for a Mary DRAPER in Rushall baptised 7 August and buried 2 days later on 9 August 1798.

I am very sorry it is not clear who Mary was related to in West Lavington and I cannot give you any concrete evidence of her parentage."

My actions.
So I proceeded to search for such a family in West Lavington for the 1841 census [using Ancestry as my resource] to no avail. Then I tried 1851 census - no success in West Lavington, - but did find John sr., Mary, Jemima [17], Frederick [4] and John [1] all in Trowbridge. In 1851 [just after the census] Julia was born.
On the basis of this and other material found about the family, I suspected that possibly the 3 youngest children were Jemima's or rhat the original Mary had died and John had married another Mary.

So I sent a email to the Archives accordingly on 22 June 2014.

Reply of 23 June 2014.
"You've provided a very comprehensive set of notes!

I agree your findings differ from mine, but I can only go on the original records we hold at the History Centre. As you say, Mary CHAPMAN was deemed quite old for the later children, but there is no indication that they were grandchildren. I checked and double-checked and still came to the same conclusion.

I'm afraid most of my time was spent trawling through original records so I was not able to expand into the depth you have and I am very sorry not to have been able to provide you with a positive outcome."

Further thoughts.
I was not provided with copies of the baptism registers for the siblings of Mary, nor for the 4 children of John and Mary CHAPMAN.

I don't know whether to look into the siblings of Mary and develop profiles since the Archivist is convinced that this Mary DRAPER is not mine.

If the Archivist is correct, then there should be some records of this family of CHAPMAN's in West Lavington - but I can't find anything.

If the Archivist is correct then my MARY is a concrete bunker of a brickwall!
 
I think you have to be very careful not to amalgamate different families. As I see it there seem to be at least three couples called John & Mary Chapman who all married in Wiltshire around the same time:
  1. The ones in Bradford/Trowbridge. The archivist says these are the ones who married in West Lavington, but what is the evidence for that? Given that the younger children have mother's maiden name Baynton then it seems more likely that this couple are the John Chapman & Mary Bainton whose marriage I mention somewhere above.
  2. The younger of the two John-and-Mary-Chapman couples in Holt in 1841. Probably John Chapman & Mary Horler/Harler.
  3. John Chapman & Mary Draper, who as far as I can tell have not yet been sighted after their marriage.
 
Huncamunca said:
I think you have to be very careful not to amalgamate different families. As I see it there seem to be at least three couples called John & Mary Chapman who all married in Wiltshire around the same time:
  1. The ones in Bradford/Trowbridge. The archivist says these are the ones who married in West Lavington, but what is the evidence for that? Given that the younger children have mother's maiden name Baynton then it seems more likely that this couple are the John Chapman & Mary Bainton whose marriage I mention somewhere above.
  2. The younger of the two John-and-Mary-Chapman couples in Holt in 1841. Probably John Chapman & Mary Horler/Harler.
  3. John Chapman & Mary Draper, who as far as I can tell have not yet been sighted after their marriage.
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I will try - but it would have been nice if, rather than concluding the Mary and siblings 1795-1801 were not mine, I had been provided with copies of those registers.

I really don't want to pay for another hour of research requesting those registers as well as questioning where the baptism for the 4 children that were attributed to the couple that married in West Lavington.

As an aside - West Lavington does not have an OPC - and it would therefore appear that there are no transcriptions of these records available for review online.
 
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I am starting to reach the conclusion that the Mary Draper of this thread is NOT my Mary after all.

Here's why:
1] I have found the marriages of her 3 siblings:
Sarah - born c. 1795 married Richard Wilkins 30 October 1817
James - born c. 1795 married Mary Hopkins 20 July 1819
John - born c. 1801 married Elizabeth Pincheon 17 July 1825
All took place in Market Lavington - a neighbouring parish to West Lavington.

2] I have reason to believe that their mother died some time in the 1820's - not yet found her burial - as there is a marriage between John Draper [a widower] and Lucy Bundy [a widow] 12 April 1829 in West Lavington.

3] We have Mary's marriage in West Lavington to John Chapman - 1831 - and their daughter Jemima born c.1834. Mary would appear to be several years older than John. By 1838 John, Mary and Jemima were living in Melksham. There is a death of a Mary Chapman A-J q. 1838 vol. 8 page 284 followed by a possible marriage:
Melksham - O-D q. 1838 vol. 8 page 630.
There are 4 men including John Chapman but only 3 ladies. The missing lady could very likely be the Mary Bainton/Baynton noted earlier and found in the 1841 census with John and Jemima.

Points #1 & 2 could well relate to my Mary in my other thread and her possibly relocating to London in the 1820's before or after the death of her mother.

Should I continue with this theory on my other thread?
 
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I am getting more confused by the minute, Colin.

What makes you think that Jemima's mother was Mary Draper? Why can't she be the Mary Bainton who married John Chapman in Bradford on Avon in 1832? (post #17).
 
The Artful Dodger said:
There is a death of a Mary Chapman A-J q. 1838 vol. 8 page 284 followed by a possible marriage:
Melksham - O-D q. 1838 vol. 8 page 630.
There are 4 men including John Chapman but only 3 ladies. The missing lady could very likely be the Mary Bainton/Baynton noted earlier and found in the 1841 census with John and Jemima.
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One of the '3 ladies' is Sylvia Daniels. Wiltshire BMDs confirms that John Chapman married Sylvia Daniels (or Davis) at Trowbridge St James.
 
Huncamunca said:
I am getting more confused by the minute, Colin.

What makes you think that Jemima's mother was Mary Draper? Why can't she be the Mary Bainton who married John Chapman in Bradford on Avon in 1832? (post #17).
Click to expand...

I am sorry - still recovering from dental surgery - and I missed the date and post #17.
 
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