Deciphering a Relationship in 1911 Census

juliespav

Member
Makin.JPG Hello everyone,

can you sharp-eyed experts work out the relationship between Thomas Meakin - Head and Phoebe Baines - Servant? I've attached the file.

Her 2 sons have been changed from "Son" to "Boarder", and I cannot make out the original relationship for Phoebe that has been crossed out and become "servant".

I also can't find her husband - John Baines b 1868 Ragnall, Nottinghamshire. I know he was alive as I've found his WW1 Service Records, I've looked at the John Baines +/- 2 years via FMP and he's not there (at least I don't think so!). Phoebe's 2 Sons are John's children.

Phoebe's maiden name was Dewsnap, so Herbert the boarder must be her relation.

My interest is via John Baines who is my Great-great Uncle. He was in the army before marrying Phoebe, his medical record was interesting reading, he obviously enjoyed the single life before marrying Phoebe.....

Many thanks for your help,

Julie
 
Phoebe's maiden name was Dewsnap, so Herbert the boarder must be her relation.
Yep, on the 1891 census (RG12/2643/93/21), he is listed as her 9 month old brother (other siblings - James, Mary, John, Thomas W. and Ernest E.) :)

Ann
 
For others looking, John's First World War army service papers are indexed on Ancestry as Joseph Baines; indeed it does say that at the top of the first page but elsewhere on the same page it says John Baines. He signs J. Baines which doesn't help clarify matters. Other documents in the set add other variations: he is called Joseph John Baines in one place and writes his name as 'Pt Jhon (sic) Baines' in some correspondence.

He gives his next of kin in 1914/1915 as his brother Sam, Sparken Hill, Worksop and sister Sarah, Watsons Rd, Worksop. His wife Phoebe was still alive then (according to a newspaper article about the death of their son John William Baines in 1917 she was living at 28 Gladstone Street, Worksop)*, so the fact that she isn't listed as his next-of-kin would seem to be significant.

Some correspondence (post-war if I remember rightly) among the father's army papers gives his address as 42 Gladstone Street, Worksop. When I was looking for his sister Sarah on Ancestry, a Sarah Pearson (formerly Baines) popped up in army records in 1917 as wife and next-of-kin of one Joseph Pearson. Joseph & Sarah's address? 42 Gladstone Street, Worksop! So was John Baines living with his sister and brother-in-law? Or maybe just using their address? He's not with them in 1911, unfortunately. :(

* see this entry from the Nottinghamshire Roll of Honour:
http://www.
nottinghamshire.gov.uk/rollofhonour/People/Details/20604

The deceased son John William Baines has an interesting entry in the Register of Soldiers' Effects (on Ancestry). A payment of £3-6-6 in 1919 is divided between his mother Phoebe and brother Albert E. Then a payment of £10 in 1920 is divided between Thomas Makin [no relationship stated] and brother Albert E. Baines. So nearly 9 years after the 1911 census it would seem that Thomas Makin was still on the scene.

Sorry that doesn't help at all with your query about where John was in 1911, Julie, but it does look as if John and Phoebe had gone their separate ways by then.
 
Sorry that doesn't help at all with your query about where John was in 1911, Julie, but it does look as if John and Phoebe had gone their separate ways by then.
The Sheffield Independent of 16 August 1906 reported that 'Yesterday, at Worksop, John Baines, for using threats to his wife, Phoebe Baines, was bound over to keep the peace for six months.'
 
OOhhh thankyou Huncamunca, you've found more information than I had!

John Baines is unfortunately a common name, but I do have Samuel and Sarah as siblings in earlier censuses, along with my direct ancestor William Baines who also joined the forces, and other siblings. He is definitely John Baines (I had also noted the "Joseph" from his WW1 papers), perhaps he used an alias later in life.....
 
There is a patient initials JB in the county asylum trade Bricklayers labourer
age abt 41 (2 yrs diff) Born Notts fishpool
RG14PN20794RD433sd1ED226SN9999
 
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