Ellen Burgess 1829 - 1906 Ardwick Charlton Lancaster

[Lorraine333]

I was wondering if any of you exceptionally clever people could clarify if I have Ellen Burgess’s parents correct ?
She’s my GGG grandmother…
I have her parents down as
James Burgess 1809 & Martha Leech 1813.
I’ve really struggled in this line ..
Really appreciate lots any help

 

[Daft Bat]

What is your source for Ellen's parents being James Burgess and Martha Leach, please?

 

[MollyMay]

There is a marriage of James Burgess to Martha Leech but in Stockport Cheshire - 9/5/1836
So if your Ellen was born in 1829, it is well before this marriage, and if Martha was born 1813, then just 16 when she had the child (not impossible by any means, but unlikely).
Do you have Ellen on the 1841 census with her parents?

 

[Lorraine333]

There is a marriage of James Burgess to Martha Leech but in Stockport Cheshire - 9/5/1836
So if your Ellen was born in 1829, it is well before this marriage, and if Martha was born 1813, then just 16 when she had the child (not impossible by any means, but unlikely).
Do you have Ellen on the 1841 census with her parents?

Will have a look, I had a feeling I’d got it wrong thank you for directing me.. will check out the census .

 

[Chimp]

If I have this correct ?

Ellen Burgess married William Walmsley in 1867 in the Manchester R.D.


On the 1871 census
Victoria Street, Ardwick, Chorlton, Lancashire
RG10
Piece number 3975
Folio 7
Page 7

Ellen says she was born in Peover, Cheshire, England in 1830

I have found a baptism

Ellen Burgess
Baptism date - 23 Aug 1829, Lower Peover, Cheshire
Father - James Burgess
Mother - Martha

There is this marriage the same year


Marriage date - 17 Feb 1829, Lower Peover, Cheshire
James Burgess
Martha Dean
Reference p36 No. 107

 

[Lorraine333]

I have a census that shows Ellen living with her daughter Maria Walmsley, married name Woodall .. it’s a 1901 census so that gives Ellen’s birth year as 1930 Peover .
There’s lots on Ellen Burgess born 1829, very confusing ..
William Walmsley born 1815 was married a few times.. wondering if he married 2 Ellen’s .
I can’t find much on Ellen born 1930 ..
I know William walmsley was a show maker..
Maria Walmsley lived Ardwick Lancashire .. she was born to Ellen and William 1866..

I’ve started a new tree just so I can try and do one without any mistakes .
Thank you for looking for me,

 

[Lorraine333]

Census

 

[Chimp]

Something strange, not sure if this muddies the waters or not. but I think you could be right about William Walmsley being married twice.


1861 census
8, Union Street, Ardwick, Chorlton, Lancashire
RG09
Piece number 2869
Folio 36
Page 19

William is a shoemaker, born 1815 Ardwick

Wife is Ellen, born 1829 Cheshire

They have 5 children

Eliza - 1852
Olive - 1855 (married Robert Guest in 1883)
James - 1858 (same James as on the 1871 census?)
Joseph - 1860
Mary A - 1861

All the children have the mother's maiden name Wilkinson

We know William married your Ellen in 1867

1871
Victoria Street, Ardwick, Chorlton, Lancashire
RG10
Piece number 3975
Folio 7
Page 7

William is still a shoemaker, born 1815 Ardwick

Wife Ellen, born 1830 Cheshire

They have 4 children

James - 1858
George - 1863 (married Ellen Guest in 1885)
Maria - 1866 (married John Woodall in 1886)
Joseph - 1871 (married Frances Smith in 1891)

George, Maria and Joseph all have the mother's maiden name Burgess.

So did William and your Ellen start living together prior to their marriage in 1867 ?

 

[Lorraine333]

I think in total he was married 4 times , Ann Farnsworth ,Harriet Wilkinson, Ellen? And Ellen Burgess.. my Ellen was born 1830 , she’s a proper mystery .
I know in 1901 census she lived with my g g gran Maria , she was 71 and widowed.
I can’t find anything really on my Ellen , lots on Ellen Burgess .
Thank you for all the info above, it really supports my theory .

 

[Lorraine333]

Something strange, not sure if this muddies the waters or not. but I think you could be right about William Walmsley being married twice.


1861 census
8, Union Street, Ardwick, Chorlton, Lancashire
RG09
Piece number 2869
Folio 36
Page 19

William is a shoemaker, born 1815 Ardwick

Wife is Ellen, born 1829 Cheshire

They have 5 children

Eliza - 1852
Olive - 1855 (married Robert Guest in 1883)
James - 1858 (same James as on the 1871 census?)
Joseph - 1860
Mary A - 1861

All the children have the mother's maiden name Wilkinson

We know William married your Ellen in 1867

1871
Victoria Street, Ardwick, Chorlton, Lancashire
RG10
Piece number 3975
Folio 7
Page 7

William is still a shoemaker, born 1815 Ardwick

Wife Ellen, born 1830 Cheshire

They have 4 children

James - 1858
George - 1863 (married Ellen Guest in 1885)
Maria - 1866 (married John Woodall in 1886)
Joseph - 1871 (married Frances Smith in 1891)

George, Maria and Joseph all have the mother's maiden name Burgess.

So did William and your Ellen start living together prior to their marriage in 1867 ?

I have this, it shows Maria’s mum Ellen.. Maria is my mums , nans mum … my g g gran .. it states that Maria’s mum was Burgess , I’m so confused as on the 1901 census it states she was 71 .. that would make her birth 1830, but on the birth cert Maria’s mum is stated as being Ellen Burgess . Super confused.

 

[Lorraine333]

I think in total he was married 4 times , Ann Farnsworth ,Harriet Wilkinson, Ellen? And Ellen Burgess.. my Ellen was born 1830 , she’s a proper mystery .
I know in 1901 census she lived with my g g gran Maria , she was 71 and widowed.
I can’t find anything really on my Ellen , lots on Ellen Burgess .
Thank you for all the info above, it really supports my theory .

Here William Walmsley is a widower, his last wife must of been my Ellen. Hannah Wilkinson must of been his first wife .

 

[Archie's Mum]

There is an Ellen BURGES baptised 25/11/1828 at Providence Independent, Dukinfied Lancashire. Abode is Dukinfield CHESHIRE, father JAMES Burges and mother Mary. As her first son with William is James I thought it might be worth following up.

 

[Archie's Mum]

When Ellen Walmsley/Burgess died she died in the Didsbury Workhouse and was buried 23/4/1906 at Southern Cemetery. Age 76. Admitted to the workhouse from Ardwick Parish. Family Search

 

[Lorraine333]

There is an Ellen BURGES baptised 25/11/1828 at Providence Independent, Dukinfied Lancashire. Abode is Dukinfield CHESHIRE, father JAMES Burges and mother Mary. As her first son with William is James I thought it might be worth following up.

This is exciting !! Info I haven’t found.. thank you so much !! def worth a follow up .

 

[Chimp]

Could this be William's first marriage ?

There is a marriage in Prestbury on 17th September 1832 for a William Walmsley to a Ann Green, William's profession is Shoe Maker. It says they are both of the parish of Bosley, Macclesfield. One of the witnesses is Joseph Walmsley, the same name a William's father. Actually both witnesses names are the same as those on William's marriage to Harriet Wilkinson marriage certificate.



1841 census
London Road, Prestbury, Macclesfield, Cheshire
H0107
Folio number 17
Page number 28

William (1815), Ann (1813) and 3 children Enoch, Joseph and Hannah

There is a death for an Ann Walmsley in 1843 in the Macclesfield registration district. Macclesfield encompasses Prestbury.

WALMSLEY, ANN
Age - 31
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in MACCLESFIELD UNION Volume 19 Page 91

Leaving William free to marry Harriet Wilkinson in 1844.

1851 census

London Road, Sutton, Macclesfield, Cheshire
HO107
Piece number 2161
Folio 237
Page 6

William (1815) Harriet (1820) and 4 children Enoch, Joseph, John and Hannah.

You have William marrying Ann Farnsworth, I take it this is the marriage in 1836. The problem with this marriage is, on all the censuses and his marriage to Harriet Wilkinson he is either a cordwainer or Shoe Maker like his father. On the Marriage Licence Bonds And Allegations of 1836 this William is a farmer. Therefore, I would say the marriage to Ann Green in 1832 is more likely, but....it is your family and your choice.

 

[MollyMay]

The children @Chimp has mentioned above on the 1841 census were all bap. in Bosley
Enoch 24/2/1833, Joseph 8/3/1835, Hannah 21/1/1838 (I have only seen transcriptions) children of William and Ann
John (1851) was bap at Sutton (nr Macclesfield) 21/7/1841 - the original says William is a shoemaker, their residence Sutton.

 

[Lorraine333]

Could this be William's first marriage ?

There is a marriage in Prestbury on 17th September 1832 for a William Walmsley to a Ann Green, William's profession is Shoe Maker. It says they are both of the parish of Bosley, Macclesfield. One of the witnesses is Joseph Walmsley, the same name a William's father. Actually both witnesses names are the same as those on William's marriage to Harriet Wilkinson marriage certificate.

View attachment 14081

1841 census
London Road, Prestbury, Macclesfield, Cheshire
H0107
Folio number 17
Page number 28

William (1815), Ann (1813) and 3 children Enoch, Joseph and Hannah

There is a death for an Ann Walmsley in 1843 in the Macclesfield registration district. Macclesfield encompasses Prestbury.

WALMSLEY, ANN
Age - 31
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in MACCLESFIELD UNION Volume 19 Page 91

Leaving William free to marry Harriet Wilkinson in 1844.

1851 census

London Road, Sutton, Macclesfield, Cheshire
HO107
Piece number 2161
Folio 237
Page 6

William (1815) Harriet (1820) and 4 children Enoch, Joseph, John and Hannah.

You have William marrying Ann Farnsworth, I take it this is the marriage in 1836. The problem with this marriage is, on all the censuses and his marriage to Harriet Wilkinson he is either a cordwainer or Shoe Maker like his father. On the Marriage Licence Bonds And Allegations of 1836 this William is a farmer. Therefore, I would say the marriage to Ann Green in 1832 is more likely, but....it is your family and your choice.

He was a right one William Walmsley , ; wives, two died early , I’d lbd to know what they died of.
Cordwainer and shoe maker are the same profession , so that’s right .. I’ve seen the farmer info too, maybe he took time out to do some farming it’s possible.
Thank you so much for finding this other marriage , it’s definitely him .

 

[Lorraine333]

The children @Chimp has mentioned above on the 1841 census were all bap. in Bosley
Enoch 24/2/1833, Joseph 8/3/1835, Hannah 21/1/1838 (I have only seen transcriptions) children of William and Ann
John (1851) was bap at Sutton (nr Macclesfield) 21/7/1841 - the original says William is a shoemaker, their residence Sutton.

Thank you for this , it all helps to build a story for William and his many wives ..
I didn’t realise a cordwainer and shoe maker were the same profession until it was pointed out.
Thank you for this info

 

[MollyMay]

From what we have here I think this timeline makes some sense.

1832 - William marries Ann Green
1833 - Enoch - mother Ann
1835 - Joseph - mother Ann
1838 - Hannah - mother Ann
1841 - living Prestbury Macclesfield
1841 - John - mother Ann
1843 - Ann dies
1844 - William marries Harriet Wilkinson
1851 - living Sutton Macclesfield
1852 - Eliza - mother Harriet
1855 - Olive - mother Harriet
1858 - Joseph - mother Harriet
1861 - Mary Ann - mother Harriet
1861 - living at Ardwick
1863 - George - mother Ellen
1866 - Maria - mother Ellen
1867 - William marries Ellen Burgess
1871 - Joseph - mother Ellen
1871 - living at Ardwick

Back to your original quest of Ellen's parentage - as she states of Peover in 1901, the birth that @Chimp found 23/8/1829 to James Burgess and Martha Dean seems most likely

 

[Lorraine333]

From what we have here I think this timeline makes some sense.

1832 - William marries Ann Green
1833 - Enoch - mother Ann
1835 - Joseph - mother Ann
1838 - Hannah - mother Ann
1841 - living Prestbury Macclesfield
1841 - John - mother Ann
1843 - Ann dies
1844 - William marries Harriet Wilkinson
1851 - living Sutton Macclesfield
1852 - Eliza - mother Harriet
1855 - Olive - mother Harriet
1858 - Joseph - mother Harriet
1861 - Mary Ann - mother Harriet
1861 - living at Ardwick
1863 - George - mother Ellen
1866 - Maria - mother Ellen
1867 - William marries Ellen Burgess
1871 - Joseph - mother Ellen
1871 - living at Ardwick

Back to your original quest of Ellen's parentage - as she states of Peover in 1901, the birth that @Chimp found 23/8/1829 to James Burgess and Martha Dean seems most likely

Oh my goodness me, this is everything I’ve been trying to work out in my head it does make sense looking at this written down .
I am blown away by this it’s really opened it all up .. Thank you so much

Something strange, not sure if this muddies the waters or not. but I think you could be right about William Walmsley being married twice.


1861 census
8, Union Street, Ardwick, Chorlton, Lancashire
RG09
Piece number 2869
Folio 36
Page 19

William is a shoemaker, born 1815 Ardwick

Wife is Ellen, born 1829 Cheshire

They have 5 children

Eliza - 1852
Olive - 1855 (married Robert Guest in 1883)
James - 1858 (same James as on the 1871 census?)
Joseph - 1860
Mary A - 1861

All the children have the mother's maiden name Wilkinson

We know William married your Ellen in 1867

1871
Victoria Street, Ardwick, Chorlton, Lancashire
RG10
Piece number 3975
Folio 7
Page 7

William is still a shoemaker, born 1815 Ardwick

Wife Ellen, born 1830 Cheshire

They have 4 children

James - 1858
George - 1863 (married Ellen Guest in 1885)
Maria - 1866 (married John Woodall in 1886)
Joseph - 1871 (married Frances Smith in 1891)

George, Maria and Joseph all have the mother's maiden name Burgess.

So did William and your Ellen start living together prior to their marriage in 1867 ?

all brilliant info above and ties in with my tree , defo 2 Ellen’s I think , as the Ellen 1829 birth and her children get mixed up in ancestry for Ellen that had Maria , George and James .. , , This one has been so hard to sort out.. grateful for everyone’s help