Ellen Burgess 1829 - 1906 Ardwick Charlton Lancaster

[MollyMay]

I think we need to find Harriet's death.
This will confirm if there are 2 Ellen's or that William and Harriet parted and your Ellen Burgess moved in with him, and he was not free to marry her until 1867 (in my opinion there is just the one Ellen - yours, but something happened so that Harriet left and William moved Ellen in - more than happy to be proved wrong)

 

[Lorraine333]

I think we need to find Harriet's death.
This will confirm if there are 2 Ellen's or that William and Harriet parted and your Ellen Burgess moved in with him, and he was not free to marry her until 1867 (in my opinion there is just the one Ellen - yours, but something happened so that Harriet left and William moved Ellen in - more than happy to be proved wrong)

You’re probably right, I was wondering where we could squeeze another Ellen in. What throws me is Ellen’s birth year, on the 1901 census her birth year would be 1830, but the other Ellen listed is 1829.
When I do a search on Maria Woodall / Walmsley , Mary Ann keeps popping up, that’s one of William Walmsley children from another marriage.
Maybe it is Ellen burgess that’s my Maria’s mum )
Gosh he was a busy man Thank you for much appreciated direction.

 

[Lorraine333]

I think we need to find Harriet's death.
This will confirm if there are 2 Ellen's or that William and Harriet parted and your Ellen Burgess moved in with him, and he was not free to marry her until 1867 (in my opinion there is just the one Ellen - yours, but something happened so that Harriet left and William moved Ellen in - more than happy to be proved wrong)

On the search for her death

 

[MollyMay]

What throws me is Ellen’s birth year, on the 1901 census her birth year would be 1830, but the other Ellen listed is 1829.

Don't fret too much over ages. People were not always correct when giving their ages so often got it wrong. Birthdays were not important back then, so you gets lots of descrepancies in ages. 1 or 2 years (or even up to 5) is quite the norm

Maybe it is Ellen burgess that’s my Maria’s mum

She is - from the GRO we have this

Which adds to my theory that William and Ellen were 'together' before they wed in 1867

 

[MollyMay]

I think I have Harriet's death - March qtr 1858 age 38 fits with a birth 1820


It could be she died as a result of childbirth
James was registered in the Dec qt of 1857 - mother Wilkinson
Some corrections to the time line

Mary Ann was not Harriet's child, but Ellen Burgess's


On the 1861 census there is a child Joseph aged 1 -I cannot find a birth reg for him (he is not the one registered in Chorlton in Dec qtr 1860 - mmn is Higgingson), although Anc. show a baptism for him in 1863 born June 1859

So it appears he too is Ellen's child.

 

[Lorraine333]

Don't fret too much over ages. People were not always correct when giving their ages so often got it wrong. Birthdays were not important back then, so you gets lots of descrepancies in ages. 1 or 2 years (or even up to 5) is quite the norm

She is - from the GRO we have this
View attachment 14082
Which adds to my theory that William and Ellen were 'together' before they wed in 1867

Oh wow wow wow!!! You have it !! That’s confirmed it, I’m super relieved so Maria Burgess is her mum after all . I really can’t thank you enough or all the others that help, your all so incredibly talented, I really do appreciate your help , it means the world to me, I love knowing my heritage and for my daughters too. Massive thank you

 

[Lorraine333]

I think I have Harriet's death - March qtr 1858 age 38 fits with a birth 1820
View attachment 14086

It could be she died as a result of childbirth
James was registered in the Dec qt of 1857 - mother WilkinsonView attachment 14083
Some corrections to the time line

Mary Ann was not Harriet's child, but Ellen Burgess's
View attachment 14084

On the 1861 census there is a child Joseph aged 1 -I cannot find a birth reg for him (he is not the one registered in Chorlton in Dec qtr 1860 - mmn is Higgingson), although Anc. show a baptism for him in 1863 born June 1859
View attachment 14087
So it appears he too is Ellen's child.

I could cry with joy !!! You’re absolutely amazing !!!! Thank you so very much , I can’t tell you the amount of hours I’ve spent searching and hitting brick walls and sometimes giving up . So very very grateful ..

 

[Lorraine333]

I think I have Harriet's death - March qtr 1858 age 38 fits with a birth 1820
View attachment 14086

It could be she died as a result of childbirth
James was registered in the Dec qt of 1857 - mother WilkinsonView attachment 14083
Some corrections to the time line

Mary Ann was not Harriet's child, but Ellen Burgess's
View attachment 14084

On the 1861 census there is a child Joseph aged 1 -I cannot find a birth reg for him (he is not the one registered in Chorlton in Dec qtr 1860 - mmn is Higgingson), although Anc. show a baptism for him in 1863 born June 1859
View attachment 14087
So it appears he too is Ellen's child.

Now I must find Ellen Burgess mothers name , I’m trying to find where someone said Dean , Martha Dean I think ..
Her father was Joseph .
It’s a sad story for Harriet .. it’s hard to think that if William hadn’t met Ellen our family wouldn’t be here ..

 

[Daft Bat]

Now I must find Ellen Burgess mothers name , I’m trying to find where someone said Dean , Martha Dean I think ..
Her father was Joseph .
It’s a sad story for Harriet .. it’s hard to think that if William hadn’t met Ellen our family wouldn’t be here ..

Have a look at post # 5

 

[Lorraine333]

Have a look at post # 5

Got it ) thank you.. I’m going to try out Dean , ..

 

[Lorraine333]

I’ve tested out the Martha Dean theory, it’s looking promising as she lived lower Peover. I think I’ve found her parents too, knowing me I’ve prob got in wrong .

 

[Chimp]

Not sure if it helps (don't know if you have it correct or not) but, Ralph Dean's bride has been incorrectly transcribed (my opinion) I think her name should be Alice HURST rather than HINST

The original image is on familysearch.

at the bottom of the left-hand page.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-9965-Q3D6?i=19

Hurst as it is written on the certificate
the ur cut

and Church as it appears in the certificate
the ur cut

As you can see the UR's in both are identical.

Just a thought

 

[Lorraine333]

Not sure if it helps (don't know if you have it correct or not) but, Ralph Dean's bride has been incorrectly transcribed (my opinion) I think her name should be Alice HURST rather than HINST

The original image is on familysearch.

at the bottom of the left-hand page.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-9965-Q3D6?i=19

Hurst as it is written on the certificate
View attachment 14092 the ur cut View attachment 14094

and Church as it appears in the certificate
View attachment 14093 the ur cut View attachment 14095

As you can see the UR's in both are identical.

Just a thought

You’re right, I found the revised Hurst on ancestry .. I don’t know if I have the correct couple . Thank you for looking for me