John Burns

Elma

Elma

Well-Known Member
John Burns is someone that I am trying to research from my cemetery project. With so little to go on and a name like that, it was always going to be difficult. To make matters worse he is wrongly described at the cemetery as John Barns.
When I ordered the death certificate, I didn't get a lot more information, except that he died at Horton Asylum on 16th January 1914 and was 33 years old. Under rank or profession it says-of Albert Home Lodging House, Essex Road, Islington-LABOURER.

I know it's not a lot to go on and I have seen some bits and pieces for a John Burns around that time but nothing that allows me to identify him conclusively.
Has anyone any suggestions? Thank you.
 
According to the Hospital Records Database, the London Metropolitan Archives might be able to help. They have the Admission and Discharge records from 1902 to 1986 as well as Clinical and Patients records from 1902 to 1955.

See here.

You never know - they might have a nugget or two. ;)
 
The Lunacy Admission Registers say he was admitted to Horton on 14 Mar 1911, and I can see he was discharged to there from St John's Road Workhouse, Islington on that date, although annoyingly I can't see a matching admission.

What I think is his entry in the Register of Lunatics Examined by Justices at Islington isn't exactly helpful though (its the one above the wiggly line):
Code: 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1B-C3JX-G?i=42&cat=1224679

There are several earlier admission/discharges to the Islington workhouse that may be him, so if I don't find anything better in the lunacy records I'll see what I can find out from those.
 
If anyone else is looking, I think his final admission was possibly 29 Jan 1909 (transcribed on Ancestry as Burhs). Unfortunately the creed registers don't seem to exist for that time, but the admission does say he was Roman Catholic.

Previous admissions at Islington:
27 May 1905: Aged 24, Organ Grinder, RC, address 87 Essex Road. Discharged 30 May 1905 own request, without notice.

5 Dec 1905: Aged 24. No job. RC, address 87 Essex Road. Discharged 8 Dec 1905 by order of the Justice, SJ Glover Esq

21 Aug 1907: Aged 27, Labourer, RC, address 87 Essex Road. Discharged 2 Sep 1907. Own request

13 Sep 1907: Aged 27, Labourer, RC. address 87 Essex Road. Discharged 30 Sep 1907

20 Aug 1908: Aged 27, Vanguard, CofE, address 87 Essex Road. Discharged 22 Aug 1908 at own request

28 Oct 1908: Aged 27, Hawker, RC, address 87 Essex Road. Discharged 31 Oct 1908 at own request.

4 Nov 1908: Aged 27, Organ Grinder, RC, address 87 Essex Road. Discharged 28 Jan 1909 at own request.

The 1909 admission I referred to (as Burhs) says he was 28, a labourer, RC, and again gave the address as 87 Essex Road.
 
Not looking good so far as the ones I've looked at have no further information about him. However, it does confirm that the admission on 29 Jan 1909 is the man who was admitted to Horton Asylum (scroll to next page):

Code: 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1T-KQ9P-5?i=820&cat=1224679
 
Still not identifying where he came from etc, but the record of the examination by the justice in 1905 suggests to me that he may have been epileptic? (scroll to page 2). I can read the first bit, but not all of it:

Code: 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1B-DSK1-S?i=292&cat=1224679
 
Well I've been through all the creed register entries for him, and there's no additional information, except that the 5 Dec 1905 admission was from the Caledonian Road Police Station. In all other cases he admitted & discharged himself, and there was no mention of other relatives.

I wonder if he perhaps came over from Ireland?
 
I'm going to start checking workhouse entries for other parishes, as Islington may just be where he ended up. The first one I've come across is in Westminster - admitted 1895 with presumed mother Cath born c1861 and brother Tho[ma]s b1889 - although its possible that John's YoB is 1887 rather than 1881 as transcribed. All are noted as RC.

If anyone can find this family on a census, that might help rule them out.
 
Andromeda said:
Westminster - admitted 1895 with presumed mother Cath born c1861 and brother Tho[ma]s b1889 - although its possible that John's YoB is 1887 rather than 1881 as transcribed. All are noted as RC.
.
Click to expand...
Answering my own question, the YoB should be 1887 (from other workhouse entries for them).

There's a John Burns aged 22 admitted to Lambeth Infirmary 5 Jun 1904 and discharged to the workhouse 21 Jun 1904. Unfortunately I can't find anything more on him, but the age certainly fits. Its also just before 'our' John pops up in Islington.

EDITED to remove any reference to him being RC - I still had that in my head from the 1887 John!
 
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Andromeda said:
Still not identifying where he came from etc, but the record of the examination by the justice in 1905 suggests to me that he may have been epileptic? (scroll to page 2). I can read the first bit, but not all of it:

Code: 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1B-DSK1-S?i=292&cat=1224679
Click to expand...

This is what I have so far:
"Says he had a fit and was wandering about - has been at the Albert Home Essex Street. Has fits twice a week - Constable states found(?) him ___ by church (?) talking(?) about(?) Religion and God had sent him to earth with a message from Heaven. He became violent.
 
Andromeda said:
This is what I have so far:
"Says he had a fit and was wandering about - has been at the Albert Home Essex Street. Has fits twice a week - Constable states found(?) him ___ by church (?) talking(?) about(?) Religion and God had sent him to earth with a message from Heaven. He became violent.
Click to expand...

Andromeda I hadn't seen the records giving the Essex Road address aka the Albert Home. This must be the right person. What a pity there is not any other information on family. Also his death certificate gives epilepsy as a cause of death.
Now I must go and look through all this wonderful information thank you.
 
One thing that doesn't add up. John's address on 14th March 1911 when he was in St John's Road Workhouse was 20 Freeling Street, which is not consistent with The Essex Road one?

Code: 
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60391/images/31436_191451-00173?pId=13458035
 
Elma said:
One thing that doesn't add up. John's address on 14th March 1911 when he was in St John's Road Workhouse was 20 Freeling Street, which is not consistent with The Essex Road one?

Code: 
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60391/images/31436_191451-00173?pId=13458035
Click to expand...
That's the last address from person on the Admissions page. The double line after it marks the start of the Discharge section.

If you look at his admission (29 Jan 1909 as John Buhrs), it gives the Essex Road address. I also checked all of the Creed Registers, and they all had the Essex Road address.
 
Andromeda said:
That's the last address from person on the Admissions page. The double line after it marks the start of the Discharge section.

If you look at his admission (29 Jan 1909 as John Buhrs), it gives the Essex Road address. I also checked all of the Creed Registers, and they all had the Essex Road address.
Click to expand...

What would I do without you keeping me grounded? I am planning a return to the archives later in the month after their annual closure. I will let you know if I find him and whether your hunch is correct. He may be Irish, we know he is RC. I suspect Horton didn't know his relatives, as usually they would have put it on the death certificate, he had been there a while.
Today I will put this into some order, that at least will make my searching at LMA much easier. Thank you Andromeda.
 
AnnB said:
And you are a dab hand at the LMA now ;)
Click to expand...
AnnB

I wouldn't say dab hand but I am going back soon. I might just get a 'Brownie Proficiency Badge' eventually. My husband says my middle name is perseverance although at times he refers to it as stubbornness. I wish I had the depth of knowledge and understanding as others but I will have to manage with what I have. I will try.:)
 
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