Just one more decipher please

[Findem]

It's a 1636 baptism located on the bottom of the left hand column on the second page and is the first entry under 1636.

Can someone please advise me what is written between the first word, "Mary(e)" and "ye".
Also confirm that the wife of William Potter is Mary, I can't quite make it out sufficiently.

The baptism is for Mary Potter 2 Jun 1636 at Wakes Colne, the daughter of William and Mary Potter, I need to confirm that the mother is actually Mary and not Margery, even though it would suit me better if it was Margery.

 

[Archie's Mum]

I think it’s Mary Potter ye daughter of William Potter and Mary his wife was baptised ye (second ?) Day of June. At first it didn’t at all look like Potter but when I really concentrated it started to resemble the ‘Potter’ after William.
You really can pick them Derek.
Gotta love a challenge.

 

[Findem]

You really can pick them Derek.

They pick me.

I hoping that the wife's name would be Margery.

The first four children's baptisms attributable to a William and Mary Potter were:-
Mary 2 Jun 1636
Rose 29 Sep 1641
Mary 11 May 1655
Rose 24 Nov 1656
All four baptised at Wakes Colne, Essex.

The problem is William Potter married Mary Tod 24 Jun 1646 at Wakes Colne, I can't find another pre 1646 suitable marriage of a William Potter to a Mary.
I found two children baptised to a William and Margery Potter, at nearby Colne Engaine.
William 8 Jul 1638.
Margery 6 Feb 1639.
Had the first Mary and the first Rose had a mother named Margery all would have been well.

The closest other marriage of a William Potter to a Mary was William Potter married Mary Hearde 8 Jul 1628 at Sandon, Essex, no children were seemingly born/baptised at Sandon.

Anyway at least I know now I have the facts right.

 

[Findem]

Another fly in the ointment!

I found on Free Reg another Rose baptised 17 Jun 1640 at Wakes Colne this one also the daughter of William and Mary Potter.

So now I have three daughters of a William and Mary Potter named Rose baptised at Wakes Colne, 17 Jun 1640, 29 Sep 1641 and 24 Nov 1656.

 

[Archie's Mum]

Gee whizz William and Mary had some kids, including twins John and Elizabeth in 1666. Looks like poor Mary died in 1670. They seem to be one of two Potter families having kids in Wakes Colne.
I could only find two Rose’s but that’s not unusual.

 

[Findem]

If the two Potter children baptised before their marriage are theirs it makes 11 children.
Fortunately my ancestor was not Mary or Rose, it was William and Mary's son John, one of the twins, baptised 1665.

Mary Potter nee Tod when she died was only 63 years.

The Colnes seem to be a Potter breeding ground, my line eventually moved on to Coggeshall, which is quite close to the Colnes.

After I've had my coffee today I'm going to recheck Potter burials I'd like to see what's what, especially if there's a Rose or Mary, I expect there will be Marys in plague proportions.

 

[Archie's Mum]

Good luck in your search. Enjoy your coffee and have a great ‘Straya Day’.

 

[Findem]

have a great ‘Straya Day

Same to you.

I think i have enough facts now to consider that the two Potter girls I mentioned are not the daughters of William Potter and his wife Mary Tod due to the two marriages I found.
1) Rose Potter married Solomon Carter 14 Jun 1656 at White Colne.
2) Rose Potter married John Cardy 27 Jun 1682 at Wakes Colne.

I think the first Rose marriage would be the Rose baptised in 1641 at Wakes Colne and the second Rose marriage would be the one baptised in 1656 at Wakes Colne.
Taking into account William Potter married Mary Tod 24 Jul 1646 and the fact that both Roses survived to adulthood rules out the 1641 Rose dying and William Potter and his wife Mary Tod naming another daughter Rose.
Plus searching Ancestry, Free Reg and FMP 1633 to 1680 I couldn't find a burial for a Rose Potter.

As for the two Marys I found a marriage for the Mary Potter baptised in 1636 at Wakes Colne, I believe she married Henry Norden 13 Nov 1666 at Earls Colne, the other Mary Potted baptised in 1655 at Wakes Colne would have been too young to marry Henry Norden.

I do believe that those events show that the first Rose Potter and the first Mary Potter both lived to adulthood.

If anyone can pick holes in the above please let me know, my head is spinning.

 

[Findem]

I think I've come to the end of my Potter line, I may have found the parents of William Potter, of Fishers, the husband of Mary Tod(d).

William Potter baptised 11 May 1612 at Pentlow, Essex the son of John and Elizabeth, he was buried 24 Jun 1621 at Pentlow.

William Potter baptised 28 Jul 1625 at Pentlow,, son of John and Elizabeth, if he married in 1646 he would be 21 years of age which is OK.

The name William was obviously deemed important to hand down so he's in with a chance, a possible anyway.

Found only one other child born at Pentlow for John and Elizabeth Potter, Elizabeth baptised 28 May 1623.

Also found a possible marriage for the Pentlow John and Elizabeth Potter, John Potter married Elizabeth Tunbridge 8 Dec 1622 at Coggeshall, Essex. No Potter children found at Coggeshall in the period 1622 to 1642 on Ancestry.

I'm going to have to leave it there for now, to identify other children for John and Elizabeth too problematic, too many John Potters fathering children without the mother's name in the entries.

 

[Findem]

I've had contact with the owner of a Potter tree on Ancestry, the only difference between the Ancestry tree and mine is the identity of William and Mary Potter.
Mine is William Potter married Mary Tod 24 Jul 1646 at Colne Engaine.
From the tree: William Potter married Mary Meadow 1 Jun 1654 at Weeley, Essex.
Having carried out some research I'm convinced the the tree is right and I'm wrong, ooh that hurt.

A 1654 marriage makes sense with Mary Potter being baptised 1655 at Wakes Colne.

So now I still believe that William Potter and his wife Mary Tod who married in 1646 at Colne Engaine are the parents of William Potter baptise in 1647 at Colne Engaine but not the parents of the children baptised at Wakes Colne.

As for two other children who had parents William and Mary Potter and baptised at Wakes Colne, i haven't the foggiest where their parents came from.
Mary 2 Jun 16365 and Rose 29 Sep 1641.
I would think having the same first two names as the Mary 1655 and Rose 1656 and even born in the same order, there is a relationship between the two Williams.

I believe I have found the Mary aka Marie Meddows 1627 and her parents William and Hellena aka Ellen marriage, plus her brother John Medowse 1625.

 

[Archie's Mum]

I hope I'm not going in ever increasing circles. Correct me if I'm wrong. William Potter and his wife Mary built Fishers in 1635. William died in 1702, correct? His will of 1699, and I'm guessing you have seen it states 'my kinsman John Whyte, his children, John Whyte and Elizabeth Wythe (at 21) and my Kinswoman Rose Whythe'. John Whyte married Rose Potter 1/11/1664 Weely St Andrew. This Rose must be his sister. His daughter Rose married John Ball as mentioned in the will. He also refers to 'his Kinsman John Brett of Wakes Colne'

 

[Archie's Mum]

My apologies, that’s John Wyeth not Whyte

 

[Findem]

John Whyte married Rose Potter 1/11/1664 Weely St Andrew. This Rose must be his sister.

I'm about to search for that Rose, I'm hoping she might hold the key to identifying her brother William, I do have a suspect.

A John Potter married Elizabeth Tunbridge 8 Dec 1622 at Pentlow Essex, Possibly the grandparents of William Potter husband of Mary Mary Meadow, found 2 children baptised at Pentlow.
Elizabeth Potter bap 15 Nov 1623, born 19 May 1623
John Potter bap 28 Jul 1625, he might be the father of William.
I couldn't find any other Potter children baptised at Pentlow in an appropriate time frame.

Unfortunately there are too many baptisms of children with a John Potter as the father without a mother's name stated, making it difficult to identify which John is the father.

 

[Findem]

I hope I'm not going in ever increasing circles.

That's exactly what's happening to me, at times I have to stop and regroup, if ever I have trouble getting to sleep I'll try counting Potters. There's definitely an oversupply of Johns and William's in Essex and the Williams seem to have a fetish about marrying a Mary.

 

[Findem]

Had a search on Ancestry, Free Reg and Family search for Rose Potter Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, Essex 1580 to 1750. The spellings are as they come, 'warts and all.'

Baptisms
23 Nov 1572 at Bulmer, daughter of John.
16 Mar 1605 at White Colne, daughter of John.
13 Feb 1633 at White Colne, daughter of George & Miriam.
17 Jan 1640 at Wakes Colne daughter of William & Mary.
29 Sep 1641 at Wakes Colne daughter of William & Mary.
*Born 26 Nov1656 at Wakes Colne daughter of William & Mary.

Marriages, Rose Potter to:-
Francis Smith 22 May 1621 Colchester St Nicholas.
Solomon Carter 26 Jun 1657 at Colne Engaine
Solomon Caster 17 Feb 1658 at Colchester, Christ Church with St Mary-at-the Walls.
Solomon Carler 17 Feb 1658 at Colchester, St Leonard.
John Wyeth 1 Nov 1664 at Weeley.
*John Cardy 22 Jun 1682 at Wakes Colne.

The 17 Feb 1658 Solomon marriages are from Family Search.

Burials
Roose Potter 14 Jan 1623 Colchester, St Botolph, “wife of Potter”.
Rose Potter2 Nov 1708 Fordham, infant daughter of Thomas Potter, Labourer.
Rose Potter 18 Apr 1728 at Aldham, no further details.

I didn’t search for a Rose Potter under their married names.
Haven't tried to work anything out yet.

I didn't pick up the Rose Potter to John Ball marriage.
*I thought the marriage 22 Jun 1682 of Rose Potter to John Cardy might be the Rose Potter born 26 Nov 1656 at Wakes Colne, the daughter of William Potter and his wife Mary Meadow.

 

[Findem]

Out of interest and curiosity I thought I would see who the earliest Potter people in Essex, taking into account that as Essex PRs start around 1538 at best, so here are the results.

Potter, earliest Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, Search 1530 to 1550 Essex
Baptisms
All baptised at Mount Bures, Essex.
John Potter 19 Nov 1540, son of William & Alic.
Margery Potter 23 Feb 1544, daughter of William.
Mary Potter 27 Mar 1546, daughter of William & Ales.
Jonas Potter 19 Mar 1548, son of William & Ales.
Alderbright Potter 26 Apr 1547, son of John.

Marriages
None in the period 1530 to 1550.

Burials
Catherina Potter 20 Aug 1549 at Thaxted, no other details.

There was a Susan Potter baptised 21 Dec 1539 at Polstead, Suffolk, parents Roberth & Kateryn, spellings as shown on the EPRI.

A John Potter married Elizabeth Tunbridge 8 Dec 1622 at Pentlow, Essex, 4 children found all baptised at Pentlow.
William Potter baptised 4 Jul 1621 and buried 24 Jul 1621
Elizabeth Potter born 19 May 1623 and baptised there 15 Nov 1623.
*John Potter baptised 28 Jul 1625.
William Potter baptised 28 Jul 1625.
* Might be incorrect I can't find him now!
I’m wondering if this family is related to the Mount Bures Potter family.

Pentlow Potter marriages 1530 to 1700.
2 Sep 1585 Elizabeth Potter and Ewen Smith.
1 Sep 1590 John Potter and Joan Frost.
23 Jul 1616 Joan Potter and Richarde Smith.
7 Sep 1625 Mary Potter and Jonas Quilter.

Mount Bures Parish Registers.
Baptisms start at 1540, Marriages 1546 and Burials 1558.
Pentlow PRs
Baptisms, Marriages and Burials al start at 1539.

Another reason I went on this excursion is that at the back of my mind there's a suspicion that my Potters may have originated in Suffolk, Mount Bures Essex is very close to the border of Essex with Suffolk. Adding a little weight to that theory is that in the Will of one of my Potters it mentioned that he had been bequeathed some property in Suffolk, I think, I'll have to have a look for that. There is a Bures Suffolk with Mount Bures opposite on the Essex side of the border Essex, Mount Bures is quite close to the Colnes.

A theory that I'm toying with at the moment is that the John Potter who married Elizabeth Tunbridge might descend from the Mount Bures Potters, his 2nd son William was born at a time to be the William Potter who married Mary Meadow, just a theory though at this stage. No doubt time will tell, something to play with and keep me off the streets.