margenUSA seeking Starbucks (the family)

I have had a look at the Nottinghamshire FHS Marriage Index for STARBUCK, or variants, marriages and the earliest would appear to be that of a William STARBUCKE to an Agnes BRADSHAW at Attenborough on 12 October 1561 - perhaps candidates for your Edward's parents?? Or perhaps not as this is quickly followed by another marriage at Attenborough on 3 November 1567 for a William STARBUCKE & Ellen ALLCOCKE - did first wife Agnes die, I wonder. Then a marriage at Attenborough on 8 November 1597 for a Jane STARBUCKE and a Thomas COOKE. Judging from the date of this marriage, she could be a daughter of William. As could an Elizabeth STARBUCKE who married a Roger BOOT at Attenborough on 31 July 1597 and an Alice STARBUCKE who married a John PIM at Attenborough on 27 January 1601. A Richard STARBUCKE married Bridget HOGSKINSON at Bramcote on 12 July 1601 (the Phillimore's Marriage Index entry for this marriage states that both were of Bramcote) and this is followed by your Edward STARBUCK's marriage on 8 May 1603 at Nottingham St Nicholas to Anne BARNES and a marriage at Nottingham St Peter on 4 April 1612 of Francis STARBROCKE & Elizabeth ROZELL. Francis may have gone to Leicestershire as there is a baptism at Lockington, Leicestershire in 1614 for a Thomas son of Francis STARBUCK - speculation at this stage but it is not a common combination of names.

The next marriage listed is that of an Edward STARBUCK to Susannae HARDWICK at Nottingham St Mary on 10 April 1621. This latter marriage could be the next generation or perhaps a re-marriage for your Edward.

Unfortunately, as Flook has said above, there is normally very little information shown on parish registers of this date but given the lack of STARBUCK records on the Marriage Index and Phillimore's for this time, it is likely that they were from the same family and that possible father William STARBUCKE was resident at Attenborough.

Richard STARBUCKE appears to return to Attenborough as Ancestry's Select Births & Christenings show baptisms of 5 children to him from 1602 onwards at Attenborough. The same source shows a baptism at Nottingham St Nicholas on 13 August 1608 of Elizabeth daughter of Edward STARBUCK but if this is your Edward STARBUCK how does that fit with a birth in Nantucket of Edward STARBUCK in 1604?

I hope this at least gives you some other avenues to explore and provides a bit more information that may prove of use to you.

Janet
 
That's very interesting Janet. Just to say that Attenborough is very close to Nottingham**. It is just 5 miles to the west of the city and lies on the banks of the River Trent which itself runs through Nottingham.

** As is Bramcote which is only just over a couple of miles north of Attenborough.
 
margen said:
•Sons Edward and William are said to have been born in Derbyshire, possibly Draycott, but Elizabeth is christened at St. Nicholas, would any godparents or witnesses be listed in church records?
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Draycott is close to Lockington - about 5 miles away to the north. The closeness of these places to each other (including Attenborough) does seem to give weight to the people mentioned being related.


I see Parish Chest has the following parish records available which may be of interest at some point>


http://www.parishchest.com/lockington_with_hemmington_parish_registers_1557-1911__P92285

There are also a number of Starbucks for this period listed in Lockington, Leicestershire on Family Search.
 
GrannyBarb said:
:reading::reading::reading:-->:confused: [smiley request: crossed eyes!] :p
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Flook said:
From looking at the trees on Ancestry I get the impression that one person posted originally and everyone's just copied and pasted and no original research, possibly apart from the first post, was ever done. I find it interesting that there only seems to be one tree that has the 1625 marriage in it. The brief entry I gave you for the 1625 marriage is the complete entry in the register!

Parish registers from this date are seldom 'official looking' documents (I have seen one or two beautiful ones from Norfolk but they are very rare). They are usually just blank pages on which the priest or his curate or church warden wrote such details as they felt necessary. They don't have forms or boxes to fill in and so it depends on the person how much information is entered. Quite often the entry is not much more than a scribble.

I would be very cautious about the information in those trees on Ancestry; people have a habit of seeing a name and then just connecting it to another because it looks right - that sort of 'research' is just a total waste of time.

I'll have a scout around and see if I can find the type of parish register I'm talking about.
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That is my caution/worry too, Flook. I am very afraid of replicating errors since they multiply like microbes, especially on Ancestry.com. This Jill's Ancestry website:http://www.jillsfamilyancestry.co.uk/Starbuck_Gateway/Earliest_Refer.html identifies an even earlier marriage, Robert Starbuck married Agnis Barnes in Wilne, Derbyshire on 11-28-1541 which led me to believe the Barnes and Starbucks knew each other and formed unions over several
generations (of course no information on their parentage either). Wilne matches up pretty nicely with Draycott as the birthplaces of Edward Jr. and William 63 and 66 years later. So why the marriage in Leicester in 1603? Isn't that over 100 miles from Draycott? It is my understanding that there were slightly less than 3500 inhabitants in Leicester in 1600 which means, to me, many people knew each other. There was a prominent vintner (he also sold wool) named Richard Barnes but I can't seem to attach him to a wife and family (like maybe a daughter named Anne). On the other hand I can't seem to attach Anne's supposed parents, John and Margaret to Leicester in 1603.
Thankyou for the Attleborough parish register example, the script is suprisingly legible. As for the locational confusion- I have seen Lincolnshire, Leicestershire, Leicester,Darby/Derby Derbyshire, juxtoposed and splashed about to the point I'm not sure these families occupied the Midlands (East?) By the way, there is ironically an Indiana, Pennsylvania though not an Indianapolis; Jimmy Stewart was born and raised there.
 
janetbooth said:
I have had a look at the Nottinghamshire FHS Marriage Index for STARBUCK, or variants, marriages and the earliest would appear to be that of a William STARBUCKE to an Agnes BRADSHAW at Attenborough on 12 October 1561 - perhaps candidates for your Edward's parents?? Or perhaps not as this is quickly followed by another marriage at Attenborough on 3 November 1567 for a William STARBUCKE & Ellen ALLCOCKE - did first wife Agnes die, I wonder. Then a marriage at Attenborough on 8 November 1597 for a Jane STARBUCKE and a Thomas COOKE. Judging from the date of this marriage, she could be a daughter of William. As could an Elizabeth STARBUCKE who married a Roger BOOT at Attenborough on 31 July 1597 and an Alice STARBUCKE who married a John PIM at Attenborough on 27 January 1601. A Richard STARBUCKE married Bridget HOGSKINSON at Bramcote on 12 July 1601 (the Phillimore's Marriage Index entry for this marriage states that both were of Bramcote) and this is followed by your Edward STARBUCK's marriage on 8 May 1603 at Nottingham St Nicholas to Anne BARNES and a marriage at Nottingham St Peter on 4 April 1612 of Francis STARBROCKE & Elizabeth ROZELL. Francis may have gone to Leicestershire as there is a baptism at Lockington, Leicestershire in 1614 for a Thomas son of Francis STARBUCK - speculation at this stage but it is not a common combination of names.

The next marriage listed is that of an Edward STARBUCK to Susannae HARDWICK at Nottingham St Mary on 10 April 1621. This latter marriage could be the next generation or perhaps a re-marriage for your Edward.

Unfortunately, as Flook has said above, there is normally very little information shown on parish registers of this date but given the lack of STARBUCK records on the Marriage Index and Phillimore's for this time, it is likely that they were from the same family and that possible father William STARBUCKE was resident at Attenborough.

Richard STARBUCKE appears to return to Attenborough as Ancestry's Select Births & Christenings show baptisms of 5 children to him from 1602 onwards at Attenborough. The same source shows a baptism at Nottingham St Nicholas on 13 August 1608 of Elizabeth daughter of Edward STARBUCK but if this is your Edward STARBUCK how does that fit with a birth in Nantucket of Edward STARBUCK in 1604?

I hope this at least gives you some other avenues to explore and provides a bit more information that may prove of use to you.

Janet
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Janet, thankyou! I have never seen any of this information before and I did not see your message before I responded to Flook about replicating wrong information. Edward Jr. was not born in Nantucket he is said to have been born in Draycott in 1604 and, so they say, was William in 1607. He didn't sail to American until 1629, or 1630, or 1635, or 1639- you get the idea. There is no record of him as a ship passenger so he might have rowed there as he did the 90 miles from Salisbury to Nantucket.
Thank you again for your help. I'll have to re-read it and plot it out on paper. I am getting really hung up on the towns and their proximity to each other but I have a niftly map of Medieval Leicester that I found on the web last Saturday...
 
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margen said:
So why the marriage in Leicester in 1603? Isn't that over 100 miles from Draycott? It is my understanding that there were slightly less than 3500 inhabitants in Leicester in 1600 which means, to me, many people knew each other.
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Sorry I don't see where Leicester comes in. Isn't Lockington the only place in Leicestershire that's been mentioned, and that's a village only 5 miles from Draycott/Wilne? [post 24]. Draycott's only about 23 miles north of Leicester.

Edit: These small places can be very confusing, even over here!!
 
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Flook said:
Sorry I don't see where Leicester comes in. Isn't Lockington the only place in Leicestershire that's been mentioned, and that's a village only 5 miles from Draycott/Wilne? [post 24]. Draycott's only about 23 miles north of Leicester.

Edit: These small places can be very confusing, even over here!!
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The marriage of Edward Starbuck Sr. and Anne Barnes was at St. Nicholas, on 5-8-1603 according to Nottingham Parish Registers Marriages (Google Books 1603 Marriages at St. Nicholas's page 9). I thought it was St Nicholas in Leicester. Is there anothe St. Nicholas?
 
Also, I think, St. Nicholas is the church where Edward Sr. had a daughter, Elizabeth, christened on 8-13-1608 (prior to his death in 1608??).
 
The St Nicholas Church we're interested in is in Nottingham. It is one of the 3 Nottingham churches that were in existence in the late 1500s/early 1600s (We call it St Nic's and I know it's there because I went by it today on the bus!!).

The City of Nottingham is the County Town of Nottinghamshire. The City of Leicester is the County Town of Leicestershire. Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire are both counties and are geographically quite separate. Nottinghamshire (or Notts) has a common boundary with Leicestershire (sometimes abbreviated to Leics). Leicestershire is south of Nottinghamshire.

I'll see if I can find a clear map for you.
 
This map shows the 3 counties>

http:// greenpropertymanagement.co.uk/where-are-we.php

Google maps is good for looking at the relationship between the towns and villages being mentioned.
 
Flook said:
This is a painting of St Nic's probably about 1760/1770>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaint...-castle-with-st-nicholas-church-and-hous47505

This is it today>
http://southwellchurches.nottingham.ac.uk/nottingham-st-nicholas/hintro.php
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I knew I was place challenged! My most accurate records by date (births, marriage, birth of sons, possible deaths) list Leicester, Derbyshire and Leicester, Leicestershire as you described before. I had no idea Nottingham did not correspond to Leicester. One hurdle down. Now, where to look for Barnes(es) in Nottingham?
Thank you for your patience!
 
margen said:
I had no idea Nottingham did not correspond to Leicester.
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I won't tell anyone, honest! (otherwise you might get lynched! - there is, as you can imagine, an incredible rivalry between Nottinghamshire & Leicestershire:)).
 
I can't find anything better at the moment but the map on this page shows Attenborough, Draycott (includes Wilne) and Lockington. The City of Nottingham is just off the map in the top right hand corner.

Attenborough is in Nottinghamshire; Draycott is in Derbyshire; Lockington is in Leicestershire.

http://tinyurl.com/knt54wt
 
Glad to be of help. My husband, Nottingham born and bred, always speaks of intense rivalry between the cities of Nottingham, Leicester & Derby!

There is a baptism at Derby All Saints (city of Derby, Margen) on 7 June 1607 of a Willimus STARBUCKE son of Edwardi STARBUCKE (source Ancestry's Derbyshire Church of England Parish Registers) so this would appear to be a likely candidate for your William born at Draycott. There is also a baptism at Derby St Peter on 21 March 1630 (probably 1630/31) of a Sara STARBUCK daughter of Eduardi STARBUCK from the same source. Can't find a baptism for Edward c1604 I'm afraid.

Perhaps given the connection to Draycott, Wilne & Attenborough, could this be a candidate for your Anne BARNES (source Ancestry Select Births & Christenings):

9 August 1577 at Wilne, Derbyshire Anne BARNES daughter of William BARNES baptised

or maybe

8 July 1577 at Everton, Nottinghamshire Anne BARNES daughter of John BARNES baptised

although the latter is probably less likely given that Everton is a lot further north than the areas previously mentioned.

No marriage at Wilne for a William BARNES according to Phillimore's Marriage Index for Derbyshire, but 2 other baptisms at Wilne for children to William BARNES shown on Ancestry:

10 November 1579 Isabell BARNES
6 January 1586 Margaret BARNES buried 22 March 1587

Hope this helps a bit more.

Janet
 
Flook said:
This is a painting of St Nic's probably about 1760/1770>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaint...-castle-with-st-nicholas-church-and-hous47505

This is it today>
http://southwellchurches.nottingham.ac.uk/nottingham-st-nicholas/hintro.php
Click to expand...
I really like the painting and the picture, Flook. Is the current St Nics on the site of the original one? Is there a brief rationale for the rivalries between the counties? Sports related? Puritans vs. Church of England? Roundheads vs. Cavaliers? Norman invasion? War of the Roses? All of the above? As long as I blundered into a diplomatic faux pas I'm hoping to gain some grasp of the error of my ways. Thanks everyone for keeping this on the "down low".
 
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