Matthew & Mary Ruff birth 1866 1865

Lorraine333

Lorraine333

Active Member
Hi my great grandad Matthew Ruff was born 1865 church Stretton Woolstaston.. he married Mary , I can’t find her maiden name . They had 14 children, Alfred ( my grandad 1903) was one of them . I believe Mary came from Oswestry . I can’t find any marriage certificates on Ancestry.
 
Hello and Welcome Lorraine.

If you check the GRO (General Register Office - it is free, you just need to register with them) lists they give the mother's maiden name against the child's birth registration.
I looked up Alfred (1903) and the mmn was given as Roberts. You can double check by looking at the birth registrations for some o the other children.
Alfred's birth was registered in the Atcham district which covers Woolaston. September quarter 6a 653. If you wanted you can buy the certificate from the GRO.
 
The marriage certificate is on FMP (Find my Past).
Their T's & C's prevent me from copying it onto this thread, but Matthew was son of Matthew Ruff, and Mary daughter of Robert Roberts, both labourers.
The date - 22/3/1887 and they were 21 and 20 respectively, and both signed. The witnesses were Jeremiah and Mary Ann Ruff
 
MollyMay said:
Hello and Welcome Lorraine.

If you check the GRO (General Register Office - it is free, you just need to register with them) lists they give the mother's maiden name against the child's birth registration.
I looked up Alfred (1903) and the mmn was given as Roberts. You can double check by looking at the birth registrations for some o the other children.
Alfred's birth was registered in the Atcham district which covers Woolaston. September quarter 6a 653. If you wanted you can buy the certificate from the GRO.
Click to expand...
You’re a super star, grandad Alfred was registered Atcham, he had brothers Charlie , William, frank, sisters Ellen, Alice, Annie ..
This is a massive help, thank you so much .
Now to find Mary’s parents , it keeps coming up Robert Roberts and Mary Ruth Nonely, but dates don’t match ..
Thank you so much for helping me.
 
MollyMay said:
The marriage certificate is on FMP (Find my Past).
Their T's & C's prevent me from copying it onto this thread, but Matthew was son of Matthew Ruff, and Mary daughter of Robert Roberts, both labourers.
The date - 22/3/1887 and they were 21 and 20 respectively, and both signed. The witnesses were Jeremiah and Mary Ann Ruff
Click to expand...
So the father was Robert Roberts , wondering if mum was Mary Ruth nonely, dates for Mary ruff don’t match for Mary Ruth .
 
I am struggling to find Mary Roberts prior to her marriage to Matthew. There are a couple of options on the 1881 census, both
girls working as servants (her occupation on the marriage cert), but prior to that nothing that is obviously her.
I assume the 1871 (RG10/2791/20/16) entry for Robert Roberts farm labourer b1833 Grryddetwern with wife Mary R and children including Mary E b1861 living in Baschurch Prescott, Ellesmere is the family that you feel does not match.
Mary Emma with the mother's maiden name Noneley was registered in Ellesmere in the Sept qtr 1860.
On the 1939 register Mary Ruff gives her date of birth as 10/2/1866 - so I think you are correct that the girl with Robert and Mary Ruth is not your Mary.
I will keep on looking, but it doesn't help that Mary gives a few different places of birth - Oswestry, Wales in 1911 and Shrewsbury in 1921
 
I agree, it’s driving me mad, I’m really pulling my hair out.. At first I thought Mary Roberts was Mary Ruth Nonelys daughter, but then the birth date different ..
Then I thought she was Mary Edith , but something threw that , birth date again. Wondering if she was adopted .. I’ve never found ancestry so hard as I have trying to find Mary’s family.
Thank you so much for your help.
The only certain is her children and her husband Matthew ruff .. and her birth date 10 Feb 1866.
❤️⭐️
 
This would require you to do some extra searching, but I thought I would mention it.

On the 1911 census Mary gives her place of birth as Llanymynech.
On the 1871 census (RG10/2780/47/11) living at the Railway Tavern, Crickheath, Oswestry
THOMAS Roberts b1825 Oswestry, a lime rock labourer
Margaret (wife) b1828 Oswestry
Children - Thomas b1860 Whirrell, The rest of the children are all born Llanymynech Martha 1863, MARY b1866, Samuel 1868,
Jane and Elizabeth b1871.
There is a birth reg for a Mary Roberts, mother's maiden name Powell, Oswestry June qtr 1866 (fits with a February birth)

So is this your Mary (Ann) Roberts? It would mean that the marriage cert entry is wrong (not unheard of) for her father's name.
 
According to the 1911 census record of Church Pulverbatch, Shropshire on Ancestry, my best guess at Mary RUFF's birthplace is Llanoymynech? I'm afraid I know very little about Welsh place names and there is a blot in the middle of the place of birth!! There is a Llanymynech which is a village straddling the border between Monmouth/Powys & Shropshire which is midway between Powis Castle & Oswestry on the A483 so could be a possibility. The 1901 census of Pontesbury shows her birthplace as Oswestry, the 1891 census of Wroxeter as Stokesay, so as you say somewhat difficult to pin down her birthplace. The only trouble being I cannot find a baptismal record for her in Shropshire either in Llanymynech or Oswestry nor can I find her with any certainty in the 1871 and 1881 census records.

Will keep looking.

Janet

Cross posted with MollyMay so have duplicated sonewhat
 
MollyMay said:
This looks like Mary's and confirms she was also Mary Ann
View attachment 13999
Click to expand...
I thought that, I found this also , but found somewhere it didn’t fit .. although it looks like it’s the answer , I think it was down to birth date not matching .. I’ve added Mary Ann, then taken it out and put Mary Edith in.. now I’ve taken Mary Edith out it’s got to be Mary Ann . Thank you lovely
 
janetbooth said:
According to the 1911 census record of Church Pulverbatch, Shropshire on Ancestry, my best guess at Mary RUFF's birthplace is Llanoymynech? I'm afraid I know very little about Welsh place names and there is a blot in the middle of the place of birth!! There is a Llanymynech which is a village straddling the border between Monmouth/Powys & Shropshire which is midway between Powis Castle & Oswestry on the A483 so could be a possibility. The 1901 census of Pontesbury shows her birthplace as Oswestry, the 1891 census of Wroxeter as Stokesay, so as you say somewhat difficult to pin down her birthplace. The only trouble being I cannot find a baptismal record for her in Shropshire either in Llanymynech or Oswestry nor can I find her with any certainty in the 1871 and 1881 census records.

Will keep looking.

Janet

Cross posted with MollyMay so have duplicated sonewhat
Click to expand...
I’m having that problem , no birth records , I can’t find baptism either , really struggling to find her parents .. or wedding banns .. very strange . I think I’ve got it then records throw me , I’ve thought she was Mary Ann Roberts, then Mary Edith Roberts .. then maybe thinking her surname could be Morris …
I’m finding it so hard to pin her down. I do know her birthday date 10 fed 1866 marrying Matthew ruff 1887.
 
I know dates are right here as I knew and met uncle Victor , he was an illegitimate child to one of their daughters .
 

Attachments

  • IMG_8618.webp
    IMG_8618.webp
    98.6 KB · Views: 3
Lorraine333 said:
I thought that, I found this also , but found somewhere it didn’t fit .. although it looks like it’s the answer , I think it was down to birth date not matching .. I’ve added Mary Ann, then taken it out and put Mary Edith in.. now I’ve taken Mary Edith out it’s got to be Mary Ann. Thank you lovely
Click to expand...
Yes the age is awry - her age given at death, 94, means a birth year of 1863. This sort of discrepancy is not unusal. Whoever registered her death may not have been aware of her dob, and she may have added a few years to her age as she got older.

I have had no luck at all finding a baptism for Mary (Ann), lots of them but nothing that can pin her down as being the one we are looking for. There are a couple of possibles in 1881, girls working as servants, which is what she has as her occupation on the marriage cert. She is real mystery:(
 
MollyMay said:
Yes the age is awry - her age given at death, 94, means a birth year of 1863. This sort of discrepancy is not unusal. Whoever registered her death may not have been aware of her dob, and she may have added a few years to her age as she got older.

I have had no luck at all finding a baptism for Mary (Ann), lots of them but nothing that can pin her down as being the one we are looking for. There are a couple of possibles in 1881, girls working as servants, which is what she has as her occupation on the marriage cert. She is real mystery:(
Click to expand...
She really is a mystery I wish I’d asked my grandad whilst he was alive. There has been family confusion as to whether her maiden name was actually Morris .. I do get better results with Morris .. very confusing indeed .
Thank you so much for taking time to look and help .. ❤️
 
Glad it's not just me being unable to find a baptism that seems to fit MM! I can only find one likely Robert ROBERTS in census records and he is a Tailor and not a Labourer as is shown on Mary Ann's marriage record. I wonder if her father's name was put down incorrectly on her marriage record as the 1871 census record that MM found previously fits in other respects - birth year, place of birth, and father a Labourer. By the 1881 census of Pant, this Mary ROBERTS is no longer living with parents Thomas & Margaret, so could be one of the Servants that MM found in the 1881 census. Just found a birth registration on the GRO Index for a Mary Ann ROBERTS in the March qtr 1866 at Atcham reg district, mother's maiden name HUMPHREYS. Have to go out now, but perhaps this is worth further investigation?

Janet
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top