Newcastle under Lyme -Staffordshire?

[Ma-dotcom]

Does anyone live in / near Newcastle under Lyme -Staffordshire?
I ask because I have recently found a new collection of 'Family folk' - several of a Theological bent. In one such family I have found the husband of a 2cx2r who was buried in St. George's Churchyard, Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, England.
All lovely, he + his wife Emma Susannah have a very nice grave stone in two layers of grey granite [ I think] both their names easily read, death dates 1908 + 1937. Edwards Samuel + Emma Susanna.
On the side of front layers is the name of Eleanor Edwards, transcribed to say -"no birth date, no death date -aged17 yrs."

On a closer look Eleanor is 'somehow connected to Samuel, but is 72 yrs at burial not 12.
Is there anyway, short of finding amember in the neighbourhood, to find out just what is written on that side for Eleanor?

I tried to download Irfanview to this new desktop, but mangled it-no joy. I'd really like to input Eleanor to her family iff possible.

I've tried marriage records, birth, death & census but not found a promising lady, not being able to see cleearly the grave stone inscription is not helpful.
Any help so appreciated as I have more queries re-this family.

 

[Daft Bat]

The Parish Register shows that there is a burial that took place on 1st October 1897 in St George's Churchyard for an Eleanor EDWARDS aged 72.

Is that where you found the age of 72?

 

[Ma-dotcom]

Thank yu so much Jan, no, I took all of my info from this photo. Eleanoris on the side panel.

 

[Ma-dotcom]

Lost my reply?
Thank you Jan. Great info.
No, I found all of the info I have via this photo... Oh lordy, reply not lost at all Sorry, off to my cot now.

 

[Ma-dotcom]

I was able to see what looks like 'Wife of' between the names of Eleanor and Samuel but needed to be sure of that. Thinking this referred t a different Samuel Edwards, not the one interred with Emma Susannah. Possibly a cousin I found earlier.
I have some queries about children of this family which I shall post later, mostly regarding theological activity

 

[Daft Bat]

Looking closely at the gravestone, on Eleanor's transcription, I think that after it says "Wife of Samuel Edwards" is carved Sr, meaning Senior.

This could make Samuel whose wife was Emma Susannah, the son of Samuel Sr and Eleanor.

The 1891 census (piece 2148, folio 150, page 29) shows Eleanor (born 1925, fitting with her age at death) and husband Samuel (aged 80) living at Brampton, Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire. Samuel Sr was born in Newcastle and Eleanor in "London, Middlesex".

Samuel Jr and his wife Emma can be seen in the 1901 census (Piece 2149, folio 26, page 4) living at 2 Lancaster Road, Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire. Samuel Jr was born in Newcastle under Lyme and Emma Susannah was born in 1856 in Lee, Kent. Samuel and Emma (née GROVES) married in Lewisham, London in the September quarter of 1876.

However....

I have found Samuel Sr in the 1861 census as unmarried (Piece 1916, folio 85, page 30) but by the 1871 Census is married to Eleanor (Piece 5658, folio 20, page 16). They seem to have married in the third quarter of 1863 in St Pancras, London. Aha! The certificate is available on Ancestry and shows that they wed on 1st July. Now, it also shows that Eleanor was a widow by the name of HART but, just to muddy the waters, her father was Francis EDWARDS. Meanwhile, Samuel Sr's father was named Thomas EDWARDS.

Whilst I was looking for Samuel Jr's birth, the only one that I could find was in the June quarter of 1849 to parents Thomas and Elizabeth (née MAYER) who married on 30th April 1846. According to the marriage certificate (on FMP), Thomas' father was also named Thomas.

Looking at the England & Wales non-Conformist Births and Baptisms for Newcastle Under Lyme, there is a Samuel baptised 1811 and a Thomas baptised 1813 (amongst others) to parents Thomas and Hannah.

Therefore, I am now wondering if Samuel Sr (1811) and Samuel Jr (1849) are uncle and nephew, Samuel Sr being the brother of Thomas (1813).

I am now going for a very large coffee....

 

[AnnB]

Thank goodness I don't have to try and explain all that, well done Jan I sort of came to the conclusion that Samuel Sr and Samuel Jnr wereuncle and nephew

I found the following article about the death and funeral of Samuel Edwards, which probably won't be of any use, but Samuel certainly had a good send-off

Staffordshire Sentinel 4th April 1908
We regret to record the death, which occurred somewhat suddenly on Tuesday morning, at his residence in King-street, of Mr Samuel Edwards, J.P., of Newcastle. Mr Edwards had been ill but a few days. His illness was not of a very serious character. An internal abscess had formed, and on Monday an operation was performed by Dr Hind, and Dr Sowry. The operation was entirely successful. On Monday night Mr Edwards appeared to be making very satisfactory progress. Later, however, be developed an unexpected weakness, and he passed away on Tuesday morning shortly before five o'clock. Mr Edwards was about 56 years of age. He leaves a widow, a son, and three daughters. The death of Mr Edwards created a profound sensation in Newcastle, as few people had been aware of his illness. Much sympathy has been expressed with Mrs Edwards and the family. It is exactly a couple of years since Mr Edwards retired from the business of a manufacturing furnisher, which was carried on under the style Messrs. T. Edwards and Sons, in the Ironmarket, Newcastle. This business had been established for considerably more than a century. It was founded in 1797, and continued by the Edwards family up to the retirement of Mr S. Edwards in 1906. The founder was Mr Thomas Edwards, who began business in a shop at the corner of Fogg-lane. Two years later he removed to the opposite side of the Ironmarket to premises formerly built and occupied by Spode, the famous potter. Mr Thomas Edwards was eventually succeeded by his three sons, Messrs. Samuel Edwards, Thomas Edwards, and William Saunders Edwards. Mr Samuel Edwards, who has just died, was a grandson of the founder. He entered the service of the firm in 1864, and six years later was taken into partnership. His father, Mr Thomas Edwards, died in 1876, and after this the business was carried on by Mr William Saunders Edwards and Mr Samuel Edwards until the former retired in 1891, and Mr Samuel Edwards became the sole proprietor. The business was of the most successful character from the foundation, over 100 persons being employed in cabinet making, upholstery, and decorating. and the firm having business connections throughout the country. The firm were also auctioneers. The business is now carried on by Messrs. Jones, Moss and Co. who are composed of persons who had been with the firm for 30 or 40 years. Mr Edwards was appointed a Justice of the Peace for the borough in 1897. and he was also a member of the Licensing Committee. He has always taken a very active part in religions work in connection with St. George's parish. He was a licensed lay reader at St. John's Church, and for over a quarter of a century has been the superintendent of the Sunday school. In August, 1901, Mr and Mrs Edwards were presented by the employees of the firm of Messrs. T. Edwards and Sons with a beautiful massive silver epergne, and a large handsome silver tray, as a souvenir of their silver wedding, Mr and Mrs Edwards having been married on August 10th, 1876.

The funeral of the late Mr Samuel Edwards J.P., took place at Newcastle on Friday, the remains which, in accordance with the wish of the deceased gentleman, had been cremated, being interred in the family vault in St George's Churchyard. The ceremony was of a very impressive character. The Coffin of polished English oak, of full size and covered with beautiful wreaths, was borne from Grove House, King-street, upon the shoulders some of the oldest employees of Messrs. T. Edwards and Sons, and behind walked the family mourners, who included: Mrs Edwards, Mr T. Edwards, the Rev. C. E. and Mrs Cope, Miss Edwards and Miss Mabel Edwards: Mr and Mrs Josiah Groves, Miss Edith Groves, Miss Bertha Groves, Mr Cope and Mr F. Cope (Cannock), Mr T. R Shaw Cannock), Mr T. Slaney, Dr Sowry, and Mr J. Nance. Accompanying the mourners were also representatives of the firm of Messrs. Jones, Moss, and Co. (successors to Messrs T. Edwards and Sons) including Mr J. Jones, Mr R. Moss, Mr J. Clowes, and Mr F. Holland. followed by numerous employees who had been also in the employ of the late Mr Edwards. At all the houses along the route the blinds were drawn. The cortege was met at the lych-gate in Nelson-place by the surpliced choir and the whole of the clergy of the town, viz. the Rev. A. Baines (Vicar of St. George's), the Rev. J. W. Dunne (Rector of Newcastle), the Rev. J. K. Powell (Vicar of St. Paul's), the Rev. H. R. Tomlinson, and the Rev. R. P. Crabbe: while there were also present the Rev. C. O'Connor Fenton (of Liverpool), and the Rev. W. Fuller (Vicar of St. Chad's Lichfield), who were formerly connected with St George's Church. There was a very large number of members of the congregation and sympathising friends, as well as borough magistrates, assembled in the church to pay a tribute to the memory of the deceased gentleman. The magistrates were: Alderman T. P. Heath (deputy Mayor), Alderman J. Emery, Mr R. C. Trigger, and Mr J. Mayer: Mr J. H. Knight (Magistrates' Clerk), Mr J. Guy Knight, and Mr O. Ingram (Chief Constable). Among others present in the church were the Rev. Willis Barrett (Vicar of Etruria), Messrs. T. H. Nicholls, T. B. Udall, J. Caddick, A. Douglas, R. Beswick, E. Slaney, T. Mosley, D. K. Johnson, G. Bull, J. T. Snape, T. Snape, S. F. Elmitt, F. W. Swann, T. Rhead, T. E. Sproston, and D. W. Eley. The service was conducted by the Rev. A. Baines, and was joined in with great devotion by the congregation. Two hymns were sung, "Rock of Ages" and "Jesus lives." The coffin was afterwards placed in the family vault, just above the northern door of the church, and in the presence of a great crowd of people. The coffin bore the inscription: SAMUEL EDWARDS. Born 30th May, 1849. Died 31st March 1908. About fifty beautiful wreaths of the most choice blooms were placed upon the grave. Among those who contributed these floral tokens were: Mrs Edwards (widow), the Rev. C. E. and Mrs Cope, Miss Edwards, Miss Mabel Edwards, Mr Thos. G. Edwards, Miss Margaret E. Cope, Mr and Mrs J. Groves (Netley), Mr Groves (Eltham), the Misses Groves (Eltham), General and Mrs Wilson (Belfast), Dr and Mrs Cheesman (Buckingham), Miss Hooper (Lee), Mr and Mrs Williams (Lee), Mrs Mumford (Cowes), Mrs Munday (Eltham), Mrs Brougham and daughters, Mr and Mrs R. H. Smith, Mr and Mrs A. F. Coghill, Mr F. J. Harrison (Maer Hall), Misses Harrison and Carradice, the Rev. and Mrs A. Baines, Rev. and Mrs J. K. Powell, Rev. H. R. Tomlinson, Rev. R. P. Crabbe, St. John's Sunday School, St. John's Church Council, St. John's Sewing Party, the Vicar and Officers of St. Paul's, Superintendent and Teachers of Ragged School, Ragged School Mothers' Meeting, the Mayor and Mayoress (Alderman and Miss Elliott), the Borough Magistrates, Mr and Mrs Douglas, Mr and Mrs Nicholls, Mr and Mrs Bull, Mrs Harris and family, Nurse and Misses Rhodes, Messrs Jones, Moss and Co., the Employees of Messrs. Jones, Moss and Co., Mr and Mrs J. Jones, Mr T. and Mr E. Slaney, Mr and Mrs Nance, Miss Powell and Miss Hopkirk, Dr and Mrs Sowry, Mr H. Poole, Mr and Miss Mosley, Mr and Mrs T. Mosley, Miss Deakin, Miss Griffiths (Fletcher-street), and the servants at Grove House. The funeral arrangements were carried out by Messrs. Jones, Moss, and Co. Mr R. Thomson, wired to Mr J. H. Knight (Magistrates' Clerk) from Colwyn Bay, regretting he could not attend the funeral “to join with his colleagues in deep sympathy with the bereaved family.” Mr J. Gallimore, J.P., also wrote to Mr Knight stating that, owing to an important business engagement out of town, he was sorry he would not be able to be present. Flags were hoisted at half-mast on the Town Hall and the Municipal Buildings, and also on St. George's tower and at Mr R. C. Trigger's house. The Countess Torbv cabled from Cannes on Friday the sympathy of the Grand Duke Michael and herself with the family.

 

[janetbooth]

Not sure if you already have this, but there is a National Probate Calendar record on Ancestry for an Eleanor EDWARDS of "The Bampton", Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, widow, who died 28 September 1897. Probate was granted at London on 21 October 1897 to Francis George HART, Electrical Engineer, William EDWARDS, Solicitor, & Samuel EDWARDS, Auctioneer. Prior to that an entry in the National Probate Calendar for a Samuel EDWARDS of The Brampton, Newcastle under Lyme, Gentleman, who died on 10 November 1895. Probate was granted at Lichfield on 5 December 1895 to Eleanor EDWARDS, widow, & William Saunders EDWARDS & Francis EDWARDS, Gentlemen. Some of the information in the probate register entries certainly confirm the details that Jan has found for you - hope you had a double large coffee Jan!!

If you have access to FMP, there is a Lichfield Will on there for a Thomas EDWARDS of Newcastle under Lyme dated 23 October 1820 and proved at Lichfield on 27 May 1841 and this would appear to be the Thomas who was the father of the Samuel baptised 1811 and Thomas baptised 1813 that Jan also found for you as he mentions amongst his Executors his wife Hannah and Samuel & Thomas EDWARDS, one of the witnesses being an Elizabeth MAYER.

Thomas EDWARDS born 1813 is in the 1851 census of Newcastle under Lyme living at Brampton Cottage with wife Elizabeth and children Thomas, aged 4, & Samuel, aged 1. He is described as an Upholsterer. More confirmation of what Jan found for you.

The Samuel EDWARDS whose burial Anne found in the newspaper article above also has an entry in the National Probate Calendar. He died on 31 March 1908 at Newcastle, Staffordshire. Probate granted at Lichfield on 3 July 1909 to Thomas Groves EDWARDS, Gentleman.

I shall now go and get myself a cup of coffee!!

Janet

 

[Ma-dotcom]

Oh my giddy...! haven't you all been wonderful & haven't you had such fun? Now you see where I have been for several weeks while I sorted though this family. Who knew what Emma Susannah was getting into when she married Samuel?

The only one of the children mentioned above who did not show as being married to a man of the cloth was the 2nd daughter Ethel Susanna who married a Mr. S. P. Viggars a 'clerk in Holy orders'.

Jessie who married Mr Cope -.the newspaper write up went on forever.
Thomas jnr married the daughter of a Mr. Hobson b. China

Grimsby Evening Telegraph
Fri, Jun 13, 1919 .Page 6

VICAR'S DAUGHTER MARRIED.
A large congregation assembled in Legbourne Church on Thursday to witness the marrisge of the Rev.Thomas Groves Edwards, late C.F. in Palestine, Vicar-designate of Emmnanuel Church, Dulwich, to Miss Eirene Hob-son, youngest daughter of the Rev. J.P. and Mrs. Hobson, of Legbourne Vicarage.
The bride was given away by her brother, Mr. W. J. Graham Hobson, B.A., and the officiating clergy were
the Ven. R. C. Joynt, Archdeacen of Kingston, Surrey : the Rev. J. P. Hob-son, father of the bride; and the Rev. C. E. Cope, M.A., Vicar of Christ
Church, Stone. The three little bridesmaids were the Misses Helen and Ruth Cope, and Betty Viggars, and the best man was the Rev. S. H. Viggara.
The honeymoon is to be spent near Loch Lomond.
---------

So my queries were to be about some of these Reverend Gentlemen who in their passing left no mention of their wives or children as listed on Finda Grave, & I wondered if it was a 'thing' to not do so, or just the way it was presented by ? on Find a Grave. ? or did I read the wrong papers etc?

@Daft Bat -Jan what a brave lass you were to delve into this again, my earlier searches were frought with Ancestry including neighbours into family censuses & adding entirely new & different 'Samuels' [Bourne Furnival] in the 1871 so I had to dig into that family to be sure they were not involved.

@AnnB , how are your fingers after that little lot?- I'm so glad I didn't have to include all of thatt in my post after all, at least I could have done a copy/paste from my notes- you are a marvel.

@janetbooth - I do have a copy of Thomas' will but not read it all yet. My eyes were protesting by then. I did consider nipping over to FMP for some of this but was so entrenched into what I was finding on Ancestry plus Newspaper snips I became too lazy-mentally.
Re Eleanor Edwards, I have lots now in my notes,from birth to death but not entered any of this as I'd not seen her as 'family' of Emma Susannah Groves Edwards & notes were getting way too long. I may have to include more of the family of 'Thomas Snr' to make it all read sensibly.

My coffee ran out ages ago. I've been 'fixing finger slips' typos since I arrived here.
Hearty thank yous to you all, for confirming what I had found & adding to it.

 

[Ma-dotcom]

Because some of our delightful sleuthy members showed their skills in the above, I hesitated,- but not long- to ask the following.

Re-The only one of the children mentioned above who did not show as being married to a man of the cloth was the 2nd daughter Ethel Susanna who married a Mr. S. P. Viggars a 'clerk in Holy orders'.
Ethel sadly died in 1920 when her children were very small, two girls & one boy b.1916. Mr. remarried but in 1921 only 2nd dtr aged 7 was with him. Difficult for him I'm sure. The other two children were with a probable relative (Samuel V.) who names them as his children in 1921.
In 1922 he remarried + I've not found any other mention of his children with him. This made me very sad for a time but perhaps the two families sorted it to suit them best.

Now I must look again for Eleanors Probate which I thought I had copied into my notes, but as tthey are everywhere it's taking a while, now it appears I must go feed kittty cats who are waiting patiently in kitchen.

 

[Daft Bat]

The only one of the children mentioned above who did not show as being married to a man of the cloth was the 2nd daughter Ethel Susanna who married a Mr. S. P. Viggars a 'clerk in Holy orders'.

A "Clerk in Holy Orders" was and still is another word for someone who is a member of the clergy.

"This title refers to someone who has been ordained as a deacon, priest, or bishop within the Christian church. These individuals are considered to be members of the clergy and have received the sacrament of holy orders, granting them specific responsibilities and authority within the church."

So, although not specifically a "Vicar", was still in the clergy field.

 

[AnnB]

@AnnB , how are your fingers after that little lot?- I'm so glad I didn't have to include all of thatt in my post after all, at least I could have done a copy/paste from my notes- you are a marvel.

Ah, but I do cheat a bit - I use the 'article text' translation accessible on the BNA and then correct that

 

[AnnB]

Apologies if you've seen this Wendy, at least it explains what the Rev. Viggars did during his career -

Staffordshire Sentinel 31st May 1935
We regret to record the death of the Rev. Spencer Hollins Viggars, Chaplain to the Missions to Seamen, and an old boy of Newcastle High School, which occurred suddenly at Langton Green, Kent. Mr Viggars, who was 47 years of age, was at the High School from 1901 to 1906, being captain of the cricket, hockey and Rugby teams, and winner of the Athletic Challenge Shield. He went on to Corpus Christi College, Cambridge. He was at one time curate at St. George's, Newcastle, and later Rector of Bridport. He served with the Missions to Seamen at Barry and Ostend, and in 1933 became Organising Secretary for the London S.E. District.

Sevenoaks Chronicle 7th June 1935
The funeral took place at Speldhurst on Saturday of the Rev. Spencer Hollins Viggars, of Winding Ways, Langton, whose death was announced last week. The interment was preceded by a service at Langton Parish Church, which was conducted by the Vicar (the Rev. R. H. Douglas). The immediate mourners were Mrs Viggars (widow), Miss B. Viggars, Mr W. | Milligan and Mr W. J. Heath. Among others present were: the Rev R. P. Crabbe, Mrs Kerr, Miss Kerr, Mr and Mrs R. W. Booth, Mr S. Hills, Mr and Mrs M. D. Booth, Miss Beeching, Miss Burnett, Mr and Mrs Barrett Captain Cator, Mrs Stephens, Miss Hale White, Lieut.-Comdr. H. Selby Ash, the Rev. T. C. Bewes, Canon Masters, Canon Gretton, Mrs. Ballard, Mr C. Cockroft, Mr D. Risden, Dr and Mrs Marriner, Miss Marriner, Mrs Attwood, Mrs Hollamby, Mrs Beel, Dr M. D. Vint, Mr D. Baker and Captain and Mrs Shove. Wreaths were sent by: Mrs Viggars, Miss Viggars: Mrs and Miss Edwards; the Rev. and Mrs Edwards; Miss Groves; Mrs Cope and Family; Mr and Mrs Milligan; Mr Heath; Missions to Seamen (headquarters); Missions to Seamen (Barry Dock); Missions to Seamen (Antwerp), Worshipful Officers and Brethren of the St Mary Lodge; Mr and Mrs Edward Hickman: Miss Hickman: St. Mary's Brotherhood (Bridport); Mr and Mrs Ballard: Miss Harper; Mr and Mrs Stanley Hills; Mr and Mrs Lucas; Langton Green Institute Committee; Mr. and Mrs Cardwell; Mr and Mrs Pratt and Family; Mr and Mrs Scoones; Mrs Alfred Hardcastle; Mr and Miss Cockroft; Mr and Mrs Oswald Manning; Miss Hale White; the Four Tunbridge Wells Secretaries to the Missions to Seamen: Mr and Mrs Beel; Mrs Brown and Mrs Wright: Dr and Mrs Vint; Mr and Mrs Shearme; Langton Green Football Club and Patrons of the New Inn; Dr Marriner and Family; Miss Jones: Mrs Stocks; Bridport Parochial Church Council; Miss Apperley; Mr Risdon; the Rev. and Mrs R. H. Douglas; Miss Williams; Mr and Miss Barrow and Mr and Mrs Booth.

 

[Ma-dotcom]

Thank you Ann, so no mention of the other two children. Sad. However when children spend time living with other rellies things can become clouded re 'names'. So far those I have found don't seem to be present.