Searching for Ellen Burgess’s mother Martha

Lorraine333

Lorraine333

Active Member
I would be so grateful for some help..

I’ve paid into find my past , and ancestry .. no joy with this conundrum ..

I’m trying so hard to find Ellen Burgess on a census as a child , to track down her mother “ Martha “ I can find Martha’s sir name :(

Ellen Burgess 1829/1830 Peover Chorlton .. she married 28th May 1867 to William Walmsley born 1815..

Ellen Burgess father was James Burgess , I think around 1813 unsure…

I just can’t find a census on all the marthas I’ve searched ..

Martha Dean , Martha Leech, Martha Clayton .. no census with Ellen on it as a child .. I’ve spent weeks in this ..

If anyone could help I’d be eternally grateful .
 
There is a marriage in the Lower Peover parish register on 17 February 1829 between a James BURGESS and a Martha DEAN which sounds very likely to be your Ellen's parents given the date and place of the marriage. Ellen's baptism was at Lower Peover on 23 August 1829 daughter of James & Martha BURGESS, Great Peover, Labourer.

Janet
 
On the 1841 census in Macclesfield we have
James Burgess age 37 a labourer
James age 9
Ellen age 11
Nancy age 5
William age 1
HO107 piece 105 book 5 folio 5 page 5

There is a death registered for Martha Burgess June qtr 1840 Macclefield vol 19 page 87
There is also a birth reg for William Burgess March qtr 1840 Macclesfield with the mmn Dean vol 19 page 89

I think this confirms what @janetbooth posted above
 
Oh well found MM. This could tie in with a baptism at Knutsford on 29 April 1832 for a James son of James & Martha BURGESS of Over Tabley and a baptism at Prestbury on 29 May 1836 for Nancy daughter of James & Martha BURGESS of Henbury, Labourer. Baptism at Lower Peover on 31 July 1803 for a James son of Rebecca BURGESS of Great Peover.

Burial at Prestbury on 26 April 1840 for Martha BURGESS of Prestbury, aged 43, which gives us an approximate birth date for Martha DEAN of 1797 which should help you to find her with a little more certainty. Her age at death in the parish register also ties in with her age at death on the death registration that MM found for you.

Janet
 
There is a baptism in Over Tabley for James Burgess s/o James (labourer) and Martha 29/4/1832
Nancy Burgess d/o James (labourer) and Martha was baptised 29/5/1836 at Prestbury abode of Henbury
The 1851 census appears to confirm Nancy's pob as Henbury (Anc has it as Stenbury)
It looks like James remarried in 1842 (image on FMP)
12/9/1842 at Prestbury - James Burgess wid s/o Henry Burgess, butcher married Mary Berry wid d/o Robert Anderson (labourer)
1851 census HO107/2160/150/22
James and Mary living in Macclesfield
with them are Nancy, William plus John age 8 and Thomas age 6
There is a birth reg for John Burgess mmn Anderson Mar qtr 1843 Macclesfield vol 19 page 106
and one for Thomas Burgess mmn Anderson June qtr 1844 Macclesfield vol 19 page 129

Some overlap on Janet's post above.
 
janetbooth said:
There is a marriage in the Lower Peover parish register on 17 February 1829 between a James BURGESS and a Martha DEAN which sounds very likely to be your Ellen's parents given the date and place of the marriage. Ellen's baptism was at Lower Peover on 23 August 1829 daughter of James & Martha BURGESS, Great Peover, Labourer.

Janet
Click to expand...
I think it’s Martha Dean too, I can’t find any census with Ellen on with her mum or dad which is frustrating .. I tend to go in circles , lots of eye ache trying to find them I’m wondering if I purchase Ellen’s birth certificate her mum may be on there Thank you for looking
 
MollyMay said:
There is a baptism in Over Tabley for James Burgess s/o James (labourer) and Martha 29/4/1832
Nancy Burgess d/o James (labourer) and Martha was baptised 29/5/1836 at Prestbury abode of Henbury
The 1851 census appears to confirm Nancy's pob as Henbury (Anc has it as Stenbury)
It looks like James remarried in 1842 (image on FMP)
12/9/1842 at Prestbury - James Burgess wid s/o Henry Burgess, butcher married Mary Berry wid d/o Robert Anderson (labourer)
1851 census HO107/2160/150/22
James and Mary living in Macclesfield
with them are Nancy, William plus John age 8 and Thomas age 6
There is a birth reg for John Burgess mmn Anderson Mar qtr 1843 Macclesfield vol 19 page 106
and one for Thomas Burgess mmn Anderson June qtr 1844 Macclesfield vol 19 page 129

Some overlap on Janet's post above.
Click to expand...
Now that answers a lot of questions, I wondered why Mary kept popping up for Ellen/ James, as I can’t find Ellen on a family census, I wondered if she’d changed her name, .. fabulous info again .. you’re all so helpful . Thank you
 
janetbooth said:
Oh well found MM. This could tie in with a baptism at Knutsford on 29 April 1832 for a James son of James & Martha BURGESS of Over Tabley and a baptism at Prestbury on 29 May 1836 for Nancy daughter of James & Martha BURGESS of Henbury, Labourer. Baptism at Lower Peover on 31 July 1803 for a James son of Rebecca BURGESS of Great Peover.

Burial at Prestbury on 26 April 1840 for Martha BURGESS of Prestbury, aged 43, which gives us an approximate birth date for Martha DEAN of 1797 which should help you to find her with a little more certainty. Her age at death in the parish register also ties in with her age at death on the death registration that MM found for you.

Janet
Click to expand...
Excellent info, I’m thrilled with all you guys have found, I’ve spent weeks going in circles and getting no where.. brilliant, thank you so much
 
MollyMay said:
On the 1841 census in Macclesfield we have
James Burgess age 37 a labourer
James age 9
Ellen age 11
Nancy age 5
William age 1
HO107 piece 105 book 5 folio 5 page 5

There is a death registered for Martha Burgess June qtr 1840 Macclefield vol 19 page 87
There is also a birth reg for William Burgess March qtr 1840 Macclesfield with the mmn Dean vol 19 page 89

I think this confirms what @janetbooth posted above
Click to expand...
Oh wow !! At last a census with Ellen ! I’m searched in find my past site and Ancestry and I’ve found zero . Amazing !! I hope one day I can be as clever as you guys ..
 
janetbooth said:
There is a marriage in the Lower Peover parish register on 17 February 1829 between a James BURGESS and a Martha DEAN which sounds very likely to be your Ellen's parents given the date and place of the marriage. Ellen's baptism was at Lower Peover on 23 August 1829 daughter of James & Martha BURGESS, Great Peover, Labourer.

Janet
Click to expand...
So very grateful .. thank you so much
 
Lorraine333 said:
I hope one day I can be as clever as you guys ..
Click to expand...
It's not being clever, keep at it and you too will soon get the hang of thinking just a little bit more 'outside the box'. In your case that Martha may well have been dead before the 1841 census.
Using the pay-for sites also take a while to get the best out of them, it all comes with using them often.
Ancestry often give hints on the side of the page, some are very useful, others are not, but it is always good to look at them and they often lead you onto the next stage. Looking for siblings also helps, if you cannot find the child you want.
Glad we were able to help you make the step back to Ellen's parents.
 
MollyMay said:
It's not being clever, keep at it and you too will soon get the hang of thinking just a little bit more 'outside the box'. In your case that Martha may well have been dead before the 1841 census.
Using the pay-for sites also take a while to get the best out of them, it all comes with using them often.
Ancestry often give hints on the side of the page, some are very useful, others are not, but it is always good to look at them and they often lead you onto the next stage. Looking for siblings also helps, if you cannot find the child you want.
Glad we were able to help you make the step back to Ellen's parents.
Click to expand...
I think I get drawn into the conflicting hints, and add them so it throws off my trees, I’m all consumed in my search for my ancestors , I love it but it makes me pull my hair out somewhat too
You’ve been a fantastic help , you give clarity where my head is a muddle .
 
As MM has said experience is a wonderful thing and you definitely learn to think out of the box!! Glad we could be of help and get you back at least one generation. Perhaps another clue to Martha, given the fact that she & James BURGESS named a daughter Nancy, as there is a baptism at Knutsford St John on 4 June 1797 (born 10 May 1797) of Martha daughter of Saml & Nancy DEANE. Siblings Sarah baptised in 1799 and Elizabeth baptised in 1801 - images available on FMP.

Janet
 
janetbooth said:
As MM has said experience is a wonderful thing and you definitely learn to think out of the box!! Glad we could be of help and get you back at least one generation. Perhaps another clue to Martha, given the fact that she & James BURGESS named a daughter Nancy, as there is a baptism at Knutsford St John on 4 June 1797 (born 10 May 1797) of Martha daughter of Saml & Nancy DEANE. Siblings Sarah baptised in 1799 and Elizabeth baptised in 1801 - images available on FMP.

Janet
Click to expand...
Magnificent !!! Thank you so much, a massive help
I’ve got James burgess birth date 1806 , I didn’t realise there were so many James Burgess
Martha Dean having siblings is a marvellous revelation , that will help me push forward to find her parents. You’re amazing ..
I’m so very thankful to you all
 
Lorraine333 said:
Magnificent !!! Thank you so much, a massive help
I’ve got James burgess birth date 1806 , I didn’t realise there were so many James Burgess
Martha Dean having siblings is a marvellous revelation , that will help me push forward to find her parents. You’re amazing ..
I’m so very thankful to you all
Click to expand...
I’ve just reread , Sam and Nancy are Martha’s parents
 
Maybe, because I don't know if this is relevant to your Martha DEAN, but there is a baptism at Lower Peover on 5 June 1803 for an Elizabeth daughter of Saml & Sarah DEAN of Nether Tabley. But I am struggling a bit here because I cannot find a likely marriage of a Samuel DEAN(E) to either a Nancy (or variants), a burial for Nancy prior to 1803, nor a likely marriage of a Samuel DEAN(E) to a Sarah. However, FMP is playing up a bit for me this morning, so if you have a FMP sub it might be worth your while trying to trace back your likely Martha and her perhaps father Samuel DEAN at either Knutsford or Lower Peover through the parish register records.

Janet
 
After looking for a Nancy I decided to ask Google for an alternative name for Nancy. It appears someone by the name Ann is also known as Nancy.

There is a marriage for a Samuel Dean to an Ann Goodier on 13 Jun 1796 in Winwick.

Banns published 22nd, 29th May and 5th June.

Winwick to Knutsford is about 16 miles with Lower Peover about 3.5 miles further south of Knutsford.

Just a possibility
 
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