Some thoughts please.

Steve Bumstead said:
FMP has the 1671 bride as Mgt Abell from Boyds
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That's strange Steve, did you happen to notice where the marriage took place?

I wonder if 1671 is a transcription error or were there two Mgt Abells, both Family Search and Free Reg give the same date, 6 Oct 1651, for the marriage of Jacob Sach and Margaret Abell, in fact on Family search the marriage is shown more than once and each time with the same date, the abbreviations of the name Margaret vary slightly.

I should mention that I haven't yet checked out the marriage in the Stanford Rivers PRs via Essex Ancestors.
 
Thanks for that Steve, it might not be an error by Boyd but possibly by whoever transcribed it for FMP. I guess a 1651 and 1671 check in Essex Ancestors is needed.
 
Just had a reply on ancestry from a lady who has my Jacob Sach in her tree it's lacking in details and sources unfortunately so I don't think I'll gain anything but I can help her.

One thing which is of interest is that she links my Stanford Rivers, Essex, Jacob Sach with one either born or baptised at Great Waltham, Essex, again it's unfortunate that qualifying details are not evident. I have, diplomatically asked how she made the link, be interesting to read the reply, I might just get a lead.
 
Well I'm not holding my breath but there's always a chance of a pleasant surprise. :D
 
Can I please ask you to read the following and see if part one and part two combined make sense to you, they have confused me, I will not be offended if there are no takers.

One of my recently discovered ancestors is a Jacob Sach(e) who married Margarett Abell 6 Oct 1651 at Stanford Rivers, Essex. their children's names, Mary, Elizabeth, Jacob & Anna aka Hannah.

I found just one tree on Ancestry with the Jacob and Margarett marriage in it and have had further info from the tree owner.

Part 1 The Owner's tree from Ancestry.
John Sache born about 1549 at Great Leighs, married Margaret France.
Children:-
Thomas born 1577 Gt Leighs.
John born 1579 Gt Waltham.
Anne born abt 1583 Gt Waltham, married Edward Mead 30 Sep 1604 Gt Waltham.
William born 1583 Gt Waltham.

John Sache 1579 Gt Waltham married Jane Harrice born abt 1580.
Children :-
William born 1596 Gt Waltham.
John born abt 1598 Gt Waltham.
Elizabeth born 1600 Gt Waltham.

John Sache born abt 1598 Gt Waltham married Lydia Carter born about 1600.
Their son Jacob born abt 1630 married Margarett Abell (1651 at Stanford Rivers.

Part 2 Today's reply from the tree owner:-
Hello Derek. From my tree - Jacob Sache b.abt1620 married Margaret Abell in Stanford Rivers 1651. I researched this quite some time ago when I was able to access the original parish records on-line at Essex Records(FREE) and spent many months trawling through them. I did write reams of paper records but discarded them as they became too cumbersome. I believe Jacob b. abt 1615 probably Lt Waltham or Boreham was the son of John Sache b.abt 1595 Gt.Waltham and Lydia Carter. The tree is what I made of all the facts I found so no guarantees of absolute accuracy. Essex Records are too expensive for me now. I think they only have transcribed records now and the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. I found two John Sache born in 1549 - Gt Leighs and Gt Waltham. The Gt Waltham one is my ancestor and I believe the Gt Leighs one is the Gt G of Jacob Sache b.abt1620 Stanford Rivers.
As far as I am concerned I have researched as much as possible and am finished with this part of the tree. Sorry I can be of no further assistance to you. Good Luck, Regards
 
Hi Findem

Basically the two parts are compatible but your contact doesn't give his reasons why he thinks the two John's 1549 lead to the two trees. I would also doubt if the John 1579 could be the parent of children commencing William 1596. In those days people married quite late (when they could afford their own establishment) usually about 22-5 for men - often much later. Marriage at 16 was very uncommon, even for the nobility & gentry who could afford it. The dates of the various marriages would be interesting

Steve
 
Yes I agree there is some degree of compatibility but I suppose my main concerns other than three different dates for Jacob 1615, 1620 & 1630, are that:-

As you stated reasons leading to two trees and the young age of John to be a father of William.

I did ask the lady in question how she linked the Jacob Sach who married Margarett Abell to the Jacob born 1630 or 1615 in "probably Lt Waltham or Boreham", but no answer was forth coming, Judging by the phrasing at the end of her message I've been dismissed so there will be no answer. :( :D

I find it hard to understand how anyone could do as much research as she claims to have done and then thrown away the findings without recording dates. Still she did at least have the decency to answer my message and it has given me a starting point.

Unfortunately Gt Waltham and Gt Leighs are not yet covered by Free Reg but I will give Family Search a go, also time permitting I hope to get on Essex Ancestors early in the new year, got a list as long as your arm. :D
 
Findem said:
Judging by the phrasing at the end of her message I've been dismissed so there will be no answer.
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How wrong was I, below is a message just received:-

Hello Derek. Still confused. I have two Jacob Saches on my tree Father Jacob b.1620 mrd Margaret Abell. I do not know where he was born but his father was John Sache b.1595 Gt Waltham mrd to Lidia/Lydia Carter Gt Waltham. I must have got this info from Essex Records - can't remember now.

The other Jacob Sache b.1655 in Stanford Rivers to Jacob and Margaret and mrd to Elizabeth Woollward.

I never researched Anna Sache b.1663 Stanford Rivers and do not have her married on the tree to John Monk.

As I said previously my research was mainly through Essex Parish Records and it was so long ago and as you can see my tree has many other branches so I cannot remember precisely where I gathered all the information from but it certainly came from a written record somewhere. That's as much as I can tell you. Regards Rose
 
So there! & serves you right for assuming :p We don't always hear/read was is said/written in the way it was meant. Has probably led to many an upset over the years. She was possibly just being honest & saying she'd done her two bobs worth on her tree & didn't know anymore to tell you.

I bet we've all done same at some point Findem, sorry to growl at you.
 
Had a look on Free Reg to see if there was mention of anything pertaining to any event mentioned in the two messages, although I knew Gt Leighs and Gt Waltham are not covered yet.

Family Search came up with a few items under Gt Waltham batch numbers C & M043191.
Johis Sache married Jane Harrice 1 Nov 1593.
Johis Sache married Lidia Carter 7 Aug 1620.

Children baptised of a Johis Sache, mother's name not given.
William 10 May 1583.
William 21 Mar 1596.
Elizabeth 9 Nov 1600.
Anne abt 1583 not found.

Also:-
John 11 Nov 1579, with no parent names attached, probably the 1579 John Sache who is shown in the first message as husband of Jane Harrice.

The above events were the only ones at Gt Waltham on F S mentioned in the messages but I did find a John Sache baptised in Fairstead who might fit the bill as Jane Harrice's husband.
That John Sache was baptised 23 Feb 1563 Fairstead, his father John, on batch # P020501, that would see him being of a more marriageable age in 1593 than the John baptised 1579 at Gt Waltham.
One other child in Fairstead of a John Sache was Elizabeth baptised 7 Oct 1565.

I am of course keeping in mind that most likely there will be other Johis/John Saches lurking around Essex, also that the the Gt Waltham mob might not be ancestors of Jacob Sache.
 
Btw the 1671 Boyd's Jacob Sache Stanford Rivers marriage reference on FMP is an error, someone kindly sent me the image (off board) and there is most definitely not a Jacob Sache marriage at Stanford Rivers in 1671, nor in a few years before or after 1671.
 
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