Who was this lady?

A

Angelcake

New Member
Going through some old photos we came accross this photo

In 1901 Census my grandmother Lilian Chamberlain was Spinster Servant aged 16, Household Domestic at 31 Ouslow Gardens, Hornsey, St James, Muswell Hill, Middlesex.
The owner was Alfred George Scamwell a Wheelwright, Vans, Carts and Motor Wagon Builder (born Highgate Middlesex) and his wife Alice Scott Scamwell (born Shaftesbury Dorset).

Grandma went on to marry Frederick Geroge Morgan from Dorset and they lived the rest of their lives in Enfield after living at Torianno Avenue and Queens Roads in Waltham Cross Hertfordhsire.

Who this woman is we have no idea and no one in the family knows who she was. Why would my grandmother have kept this photo?

Even my Dad who sadly is no longer with us, was born in 1924 and always wondered who she was, We do no it is not a family member and we have well documented photos of relatives and this one has always left us wonderign who she was.


Sorry it is sideways on but I have not bee able to change is around as I keep losing the file in my computer somewhere unknown woman.jpg unknown woman reverse.jpg unknown woman.jpg unknown woman reverse.jpg
 
My guess is that that this is an "in memoriam" card for the lady who died in the Cheshunt Park area on that date in June 1926. She is clearly extremely well-off and I had a quick look at Death notices in The Times for late June '26 but couldn't see anything obvious. There isn't a cemetery in Cheshunt Park - the nearest one is over a mile away as far as I can see.

If my guess is right then there must be a good chance that there was a death notice/obituary/report of the funeral in a local paper. It would be worth contacting Hertfordshire Archives and Local Studies to see if they can help>
http://www.
hertsdirect.org/services/leisculture/heritage1/hals/
 
Flook said:
My guess is that that this is an "in memoriam" card for the lady who died in the Cheshunt Park area on that date in June 1926. She is clearly extremely well-off and I had a quick look at Death notices in The Times for late June '26 but couldn't see anything obvious. There isn't a cemetery in Cheshunt Park - the nearest one is over a mile away as far as I can see.

If my guess is right then there must be a good chance that there was a death notice/obituary/report of the funeral in a local paper. It would be worth contacting Hertfordshire Archives and Local Studies to see if they can help>
http://www.
hertsdirect.org/services/leisculture/heritage1/hals/
Click to expand...
I have been thinking along the same lines and also couldn't find mention of a death at the right time.

However, Cheshunt Park was in the occupation of the Debenham family, ever since it was leased to Frank Gissing Debenham, in about 1860. After his death in 1912, his daughters bought the estate. The last of them died in 1969, and the house was demolished the following year. Cheshunt Park is now divided between a public park and a municipal golf course. So, is this a picture of one of the Debenham family or a relative?

I'll keep looking
Ann
 
Hi Flock, thanks for your thoughts - this is one of them mysteries that has always been there and I keeping going back to it without any luck. I have tried finding the death of Alice Scamwell without any joy thinking it might be her with no luck. cant understand why she kept it. the other clue I have was that my grandad was a blacksmith farrier in 1909 at 11 Stratford Place.off Oxford St,St Pancras,London so this looks like grandma and grandad were living under the roof of Edward Stanley, 17th Earl of Derby, Edward George Villiers Stanley, Secretary of State for War, In office 10 December 1916 - 18 April 1918

I have been in touch with the Estates Office wondering if they had a record of my grandad working for them in 1908 with no luck.
 
Hi Ann B, no connections to the Debenham family or Cheshunt Park - my grandparents had no connections to this area as they orginally came from North Cadbury, in Somerset for Grandma and Grandad was from Shaftesbury in Dorset. This has made family research so much more difficult over the years due to location but goodness for the invetion of the Web etc
 
I have just emailed the Hertfordshire Record Society and Hope they might be able to help - wonder if we will be able to crack this mystery between us?
 
Hi Jan

Just had a look at the site above and Chris is quite sepcific on his website that he wont answer questions relating to the date on the postcard.
 
Thinking out of the box... I'm quite impressed by her clothing and handbag. Is there a chance that either or both are the handiwork of a relative?

Ducking back into the box...
Barb
 
GrannyBarb said:
Thinking out of the box... I'm quite impressed by her clothing and handbag. Is there a chance that either or both are the handiwork of a relative?

Ducking back into the box...
Barb
Click to expand...

Hi Barb

Thanks for the input but Grandma Morgan was not a seamstress - there has to be a connection to Cheshunt and the date but what it is is a complete mystery.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Been Googling I have found out that the wife of Alfred George Scammell was married to Alice Scott Wilkinson(1869–1939) and she was nine years his senior
Married 6th Apr 1898, Divorced Alice Scott Wilkinson on the 17th Oct 1910. So from the Google search she died in 1939 - which is no where near the June 1926 date! See what I mean I am going round the bend trying to find out who she is!
 
I have emailed the Scammell Register to see if they can help - had another Google and Ancestry is flagging up a Lydia Scammell in Cheshunt 1926 but I dont have access to the site. hummm off to give brain and rest and cook the fahitas for tea!
 
Hello, I remember Scammells, they made lorries in Tolpits Lane, Watford in more recent history, so there is a link to Herts at least.

Looking up Lydia Scammell she died in Wandsworth, June 1926. Born 1843

Possible 1901 living 266 Southampton St, Camden
Saml Thos Scammell b1844 St Pancras
Lydia, wife, b1844 Shoreditch
Edith W, dau, b1889 Camden
RG13, 496, folio 10, page 8

1891 at 73 Lyndhurst Road, Camberwell
Samuel b1844 Kings Cross, leather case maker
Lydia b 1844 Shoreditch
Arthur, son, b1869 St Giles
Albert, son, b1874, Peckham
Minnie, dau, 1867, St Giles
Edith, dau, b1879, Peckham
RG12, 467, folio 131, page 7

Then there is Alfred George Scammell from post 1

Alfred George, b1878, Highgate
Alice Scott, b1872, Shaftsbury
Servants Lilian and Agnes
RG13, 1244, folio 120, page 19

Then in 1891 at 106 South Hill Place, Hampstead
Alfred T, b1850, Donhead, Wilts, Coach and van builder
Mary, wife, b1850, Stalbridge, Dorset
Florence, dau b1876, Highgate
Alfred G, son, b1879, Highgate
Allan H, son, b1884, Hampstead
servants Ellen and Lizzie
RG12, 107, folio 94, page 41

So at the moment I can't see an immediate connection. Maybe an Aunt?
 
annabel said:
Hello, I remember Scammells, they made lorries in Tolpits Lane, Watford in more recent history, so there is a link to Herts at least.

Looking up Lydia Scammell she died in Wandsworth, June 1926. Born 1843

Possible 1901 living 266 Southampton St, Camden
Saml Thos Scammell b1844 St Pancras
Lydia, wife, b1844 Shoreditch
Edith W, dau, b1889 Camden
RG13, 496, folio 10, page 8

1891 at 73 Lyndhurst Road, Camberwell
Samuel b1844 Kings Cross, leather case maker
Lydia b 1844 Shoreditch
Arthur, son, b1869 St Giles
Albert, son, b1874, Peckham
Minnie, dau, 1867, St Giles
Edith, dau, b1879, Peckham
RG12, 467, folio 131, page 7

Then there is Alfred George Scammell from post 1

Alfred George, b1878, Highgate
Alice Scott, b1872, Shaftsbury
Servants Lilian and Agnes
RG13, 1244, folio 120, page 19

Then in 1891 at 106 South Hill Place, Hampstead
Alfred T, b1850, Donhead, Wilts, Coach and van builder
Mary, wife, b1850, Stalbridge, Dorset
Florence, dau b1876, Highgate
Alfred G, son, b1879, Highgate
Allan H, son, b1884, Hampstead
servants Ellen and Lizzie
RG12, 107, folio 94, page 41

So at the moment I can't see an immediate connection. Maybe an Aunt?
Click to expand...


Yes I also remember Scammells, especially the little tree wheeled lorries used by, amongst others, British rail for parcel deliveries around the suburban streets of North London, no doubt other area also. Could turn round in the street as a "U" turn. Stopped making them because legislation was brought in that ALL wheels had to have brakes I seem to recall, the front wheel would have been difficult to modify to have a brake so production ceased. That is as I recall it, such a shame an economical little vehicle would be wonderful on today's crowded English roads for local deliveries. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. arryboy
 
Perhaps it's me but, I read it as "In new Cheshunt Park...."

arryboy said:
Yes I also remember Scammells,
Click to expand...

I had the chance to drive one a year or so ago, complete with box trailer. Orrible, orrible, thing. Like trying to climb into a shoe box and then knees almost up to the chin. Tiny mirrors that were next to useless.

The owner wanted it moved but he had never learnt how to reverse it.:rolleyes:
 
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