William Williams at St Keverne

G

Genie1

Cornish to the Core
I have put off looking into this family because of the Williams surname.Another tree of mine has the same surname and that beat me.
I have Eliza William's born 1826 at St Keverne and her marriage certificate says her father was William. I have no idea why but when I looked at her tree I had Elizabeth as her mother but I don't remember where I got that from.
Eliza was living at Troon,St Keverne when she married in 1845.
1841 has William Williams and wife Alice living at Troon,St Keverne.HO107/138/2/13/19/331
There is Eliza with 3 brothers. They are Francis,John and William. Is this she?
When Eliza married John Richards they had a son called Francis and another was William John.Not that means anything.
I can't find Eliza in 1851 but I have all the censuses after she married John Richards.
John is another problem but he will have to be another thread.
I am having difficulty in find a marriage between William Willams and Alice at St Keverne.
 
On John's baptism - 3/7/1836 at St Keverne, Alice is entered as - mother's first name - Alice. Mother's last name - Mark.
Transcription from Family Search
 
MollyMay said:
On John's baptism - 3/7/1836 at St Keverne, Alice is entered as - mother's first name - Alice. Mother's last name - Mark.
Transcription from Family Search
Click to expand...
Cornwall O P C baptisms shows mother's first names as Alice Mark. ( 2 unrelated baptisms registered with first names of Alice Mark)
Possible marriage.
23 March 1824. William Willams( of Mannaccan) and Alice Harries. St Martin in Meneage

St Martin to St Keverne 4.5 miles
 
Francis James Williams son of William and Alice baptised 30 Sept 1832 at St Keverne
 
Eliza, if it is she, baptised as Elizabeth Jane 5 Aug 1827 at St Keverne to William and Alice.
 
Opc has two versions of the 1824 marriage of William and Alice from the Exeter BTs she is transcribed as Harries, the other has Harris
 
This is a theory and needs a confirmed death record for Richard Harris Snr
Looking at St Keverne records there is a marriage between Richard Harris and Alice Richards in 1808, Alice being the daughter of FRANCIS Richards and Mary Williams. Richard and Alice had a son Richard who could have been the witness at her marriage to William. Unfortunately the opc transcriptions, and so probably the record do not state if she was a widow or spinster in 1824 None of this clears up the Mark name but wines to the marriage of Francis and Mary was a Thos Mark, plenty of detective work to be done!
The William & Alice marriage was at St Martin in Meneage not St Keverne
 
And it looks like John Richards, who Eliza married, could well have been the grandson of the same Francis and Mary Richards, making him her cousin, not unusual in those days!
 
Londoner said:
This is a theory and needs a confirmed death record for Richard Harris Snr
Looking at St Keverne records there is a marriage between Richard Harris and Alice Richards in 1808, Alice being the daughter of FRANCIS Richards and Mary Williams. Richard and Alice had a son Richard who could have been the witness at her marriage to William. Unfortunately the opc transcriptions, and so probably the record do not state if she was a widow or spinster in 1824 None of this clears up the Mark name but wines to the marriage of Francis and Mary was a Thos Mark, plenty of detective work to be done!
The William & Alice marriage was at St Martin in Meneage not St Keverne
Click to expand...
FamilySearch has the 1808 banns up and it seems that Alice was single. An entry of different couple had the wife a widow.St Keverne marriages and it is page 85.
The witnesses were Francis Richards and Richard Williams.
Francis seems to carry down through the generations.
 
Londoner said:
And it looks like John Richards, who Eliza married, could well have been the grandson of the same Francis and Mary Richards, making him her cousin, not unusual in those days!
Click to expand...
The witnesses at Eliza Williams and John Richards 1845 marriage were Henry Williams and James Mitchell.I wonder if Henry was a brother or cousin.
 
I think that Alice is a widow in 1851 and she is a visitor in the house of William and Elizabeth Richards.HO107/1913/23/75
1861 she is living with the same family but it says that Elizabeth Jane is her daughter.RG09/1573/26/5/19
Therefore she isn't my Eliza's mother.
 
MollyMay said:
On John's baptism - 3/7/1836 at St Keverne, Alice is entered as - mother's first name - Alice. Mother's last name - Mark.
Transcription from Family Search
Click to expand...
If you have a look at the original marriage registration Allice is 'Allice Harris...mark X. She signed with her 'mark'. 24/3/1824. Post #3 I guess the same with two of her baptisms. Probably the same transcriber.
Allice Harris Daughter of Richard and Mary Harris St Keverne 22/3/1800. From the original on FS (double LL in Allice)
 
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Londoner said:
Eliza, if it is she, baptised as Elizabeth Jane 5 Aug 1827 at St Keverne to William and Alice.
Click to expand...
I am sure that she isn't Eliza's mother having found Alice not with mine in 1851 and 1861 and having a daughter named Elizabeth Jane of a similar age to my Eliza.
Genie1 said:
I think that Alice is a widow in 1851 and she is a visitor in the house of William and Elizabeth Richards.HO107/1913/23/75
1861 she is living with the same family but it says that Elizabeth Jane is her daughter.RG09/1573/26/5/19
Therefore she isn't my Eliza's mother.
Click to expand...

Back to the drawing board.
Henry Williams is a witness on Mary and Richard's marriage certificate so maybe he will be the key to solving this.
 
The only Eliza that I can find close to my Eliza is on Cornwallopc.
Eliza Williams baptised at Weslyan Methodist ,Helston, 23 June 1825 and born 22 December 1824 and her parents are William and Mary.
 
Still bumbling through this family.
I have found the marriage of Elizabeth Jane Williams to William Richards on the 22nd May 1849. Elizabeth Jane's address is Troon,St Keverne and the witnesses are James Michell and Henry Williams.
The same witnesses were at my Eliza Williams and John Richards and Elizabeth Jane was living at the same residence as Eliza
I wonder if Henry Williams is a relative of the Williams or is rented out to all marriages.
Maybe Alice is Eliza's mother and she also called another daughter Elizabeth Jane.
I am going to see if I can find information about William and Alice Williams 3 sons.Francis 1832.John 1837 and William 1840.
Added:
There is a Francis Williams a house servant in 1851 at
HO107/1913/115/15/48. Perhaps Alice's son.
 
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It was raining all day so I thought that I would look at this tree again and I wished that I didn't.
Back to Eliza and Elizabeth Jane again:rolleyes:
I wonder if I have the wrong mother for Eliza and that the Eliza with William and Alice was Elizabeth Jane and not 'my Eliza'.:headbang:
If I am wrong then where is Elizabeth Jane in 1841?
Elizabeth Jane's mother Alice is with her from 1851 until her Alice's death in 1879.
There is no baptism for Eliza with mother Alice only Elizabeth Jane has mother Alice.
The only common thing is that both have William as a father and according to censuses their year of birth is 1826/1827.
My Eliza has been traced from 1851 until her death.
I have left out 1841 at the moment because I am unsure if Alice is her mother.
Hoping that this can be sorted one way or the other.
Years ago I had Elizabeth as Eliza's mother but have no idea where that came from.
Added:
When Eliza married John Richards she would have been about 19 but was down as full age. It seems that it was a shot gun marriage.
 
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