Matthew & Mary Ruff birth 1866 1865

I did find one other baptism for a Mary Ann Roberts baptised 22/6/1866 born 25/2/1866 in Chirk Denbighshire.
I discounted it but on looking at a map it is not that far from Oswestry, and is covered by the Oswestry reg. district.
This Mary Ann is the daughter of single woman Ann Roberts
For some reason the birth reg does not show on the GRO list but both FreeBMD and FMP have it
March qtr 1866 Oswestry 6a 729 with no mmn entered (correct)

Needless to say I cannot find this Mary Ann in 1871, of course if her mother married then she might be enumerated with a different surname.
 
@MollyMay I was just looking at that young girl. She is living with her grandmother Joannah Williams, uncle Jeremiah Williams and other Williams'. 1871 Oswestry Denbighshire. Joannah is widowed. Could be worth a look. Forgot to get schedule numbers but Im sure you will find her.
 
Archie's Mum said:
Not sure about this line of investigation as another tree has this Mary Anne Roberts marrying Edward Crozier in Toronto in 1886 1931 census has the Elizabeth born 1870, age 61 housekeeper for the daughters of her sister Sarah Coggins/Goggins in Toronto. Sarah died age 37.
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I know my Mary Roberts married Matthew Ruff 1887 she was age 21 I think and Matthew 20.
This lady is a big mystery . Thank you for looking .
 
The mother of the Chirk Mary Ann ROBERTS, Ann ROBERTS, was buried at Chirk on 30 March 1866, aged 20, and is shown as of Gelli as she is on the baptismal record of Mary Ann which probably explains why she is with Joanna in the 1871 census. Baptism at Chirk on 7 September 1845 for an Anne daughter of Thomas & Christiana ROBERTS, Black Park, Collier. Joanna WILLIAMS is still living in Chirk in the 1881 census, born Madley, Shropshire, but no sign of Mary Ann.

Janet
 
Looking at the 1861 census for Joannah Williams, she is 41 years old, born Madeley, husband is William Williams, head and 49 born Chirk, Jeremiah is 10 and a Joanna who’s age is 6. But there is a James and states 45 years of age and is said to be ‘son’ and single. Could someone recheck the original for his age please. Line 20, Page 5, Piece 1880/95 RG09. If this is an error and age is wrong, say should be 15 then he could be the father of Mary Ann Roberts who is the grandaughter in 1871, daughter of Ann Roberts.
 
Archie's Mum said:
Looking at the 1861 census for Joannah Williams, she is 41 years old, born Madeley, husband is William Williams, head and 49 born Chirk, Jeremiah is 10 and a Joanna who’s age is 6. But there is a James and states 45 years of age and is said to be ‘son’ and single. Could someone recheck the original for his age please. Line 20, Page 5, Piece 1880/95 RG09. If this is an error and age is wrong, say should be 15 then he could be the father of Mary Ann Roberts who is the grandaughter in 1871, daughter of Ann Roberts.
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I’m trying to keep up you’re all so hot on this, your brains go way further into all of this than I can manage
 
MollyMay said:
I did find one other baptism for a Mary Ann Roberts baptised 22/6/1866 born 25/2/1866 in Chirk Denbighshire.
I discounted it but on looking at a map it is not that far from Oswestry, and is covered by the Oswestry reg. district.
This Mary Ann is the daughter of single woman Ann Roberts
For some reason the birth reg does not show on the GRO list but both FreeBMD and FMP have it
March qtr 1866 Oswestry 6a 729 with no mmn entered (correct)

Needless to say I cannot find this Mary Ann in 1871, of course if her mother married then she might be enumerated with a different surname.
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I know this is them on the 1911 census
 

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This is them 1901 census but my grandad Alfred ruff not on it as not born until 1903
 

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MollyMay said:
I did find one other baptism for a Mary Ann Roberts baptised 22/6/1866 born 25/2/1866 in Chirk Denbighshire.
I discounted it but on looking at a map it is not that far from Oswestry, and is covered by the Oswestry reg. district.
This Mary Ann is the daughter of single woman Ann Roberts
For some reason the birth reg does not show on the GRO list but both FreeBMD and FMP have it
March qtr 1866 Oswestry 6a 729 with no mmn entered (correct)

Needless to say I cannot find this Mary Ann in 1871, of course if her mother married then she might be enumerated with a different surname.
Click to expand...
This is def them 1939 census, they took in their daughters son Victor, he was born out of wedlock ..
 

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Daft Bat said:
James is 15 years old, not 45. It just looks like 45 if you are not concentrating as there is an enumerator's mark across it. :)

Transcription error. ;)
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Looking good. Thank you.
This Mary Ann is looking more like the Mary Ann we are chasing. Fingers crossed. Although saying her father was Robert Roberts is a bit of a concern. Perhaps that is what she was told or she made it up.
 
Archie's Mum said:
Looking good. Thank you.
This Mary Ann is looking more like the Mary Ann we are chasing. Fingers crossed. Although saying her father was Robert Roberts is a bit of a concern. Perhaps that is what she was told or she made it up.
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Wondering if she was adopted , but then I guess she would show up in a census .. just can’t fathom Mary and her life story . So many choices for who could have been her parents.
 
OK, here we go…. I have been following Jeremiah Williams, son of Joannah Williams found in 1871 with a young MaryA Ann Roberts. In 1911 Jeremiah is single, working in a colliery. With him is George Roberts 53 brother in law, sister Anna Roberts 55 and some children of George and Anna. There is a possible marriage of a George Roberts to Ann Williams in 1869 at St Asaph Flintshire/Denbighshire. In 1901 Anna is Hannah who I believe is the 16 year old Joanna daughter in 1871. So where does Mary Ann Roberts fit in here? She is definately related to George somehow. But George is too young to be her father as is Anna.
 
Archie's Mum said:
OK, here we go…. I have been following Jeremiah Williams, son of Joannah Williams found in 1871 with a young MaryA Ann Roberts. In 1911 Jeremiah is single, working in a colliery. With him is George Roberts 53 brother in law, sister Anna Roberts 55 and some children of George and Anna. There is a possible marriage of a George Roberts to Ann Williams in 1869 at St Asaph Flintshire/Denbighshire. In 1901 Anna is Hannah who I believe is the 16 year old Joanna daughter in 1871. So where does Mary Ann Roberts fit in here? She is definately related to George somehow. But George is too young to be her father as is Anna.
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I know that my great grandmother was born I think 1866, possible 1865, so these are ancestors.. there is a Jeremiah in the family somewhere .. fabulous research by you and everyone., finding Mary’s family is a very hard cookie to crack.
 
Lorraine333 said:
there is a Jeremiah in the family somewhere
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Matthew had a brother Jeremiah, who witnessed the marriage to Mary Roberts, the other being a Mary Ann Ruff - perhaps we need to look into him further?
Other than in one census with his parents I don't think I found him again apart from being the witness:confused:
 
MollyMay said:
Matthew had a brother Jeremiah, who witnessed the marriage to Mary Roberts, the other being a Mary Ann Ruff - perhaps we need to look into him further?
Other than in one census with his parents I don't think I found him again apart from being the witness:confused:
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He is on the 1851 as Jerry Williams age 0 with Hannah (Joannah) and William Williams as well as James age 5.
 
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