Locating Bert Lee

I've just come back from the library (via the local Irish bar - it's terribly muggy today :)) and I've drawn a blank looking for a death notice in the Nottingham Evening Post for mid-Sept to end December 1965. I started to look at the electoral registers for any clues but had to give up in the end - I could try that again another day possibly.

Old Stoneface mentioned cremation. I suspect that if Bert Lee was cremated in 1965 it could well have been at Wilford Hill Crematorium in West Bridgford (just to the south of Nottingham). See this guide: http://cms.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/cemeteryrecords.pdf

If you want to contact them it seems you have to email this address>

[email protected]
 
Oh that was so sweet of you to look for me. :rolleyes: Thank you. I just went and asked Mom again. She said he was about 85 or 86. He definitely passed before we moved to America in March of '67. I asked about crematoriums. At first she was saying something in Bulwell. Then I asked if it could be Wilford and she said "Wilford Hill yes that's it". She does get things confused these days. Thank you for the links. I will go look at them. :)
 
Glenda R said:
I never understood what reading banns was all about. Thank you for telling me the difference between certificates and licenses in England. Over here, you get a permit to get married, and then the certificate/license are basically the same thing.
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Sue036 said:
In the Church of England you are meant to publicly announce your intention to marry by having the clergyman read out in church "the marriage banns" - basically your names and that you plan to get married - on three Sundays before you actually marry. That is to allow time for anyone who knows of a reason why you shouldn't marry to raise the issue either before or at the marriage ceremony. When these rules were first enforced you had to marry in a CofE church unless you were a Jew or a Quaker and a license was required to marry without having the banns read. More recently marriages in other churches or civil marriages were allowed and for these the couple has to give advance notice to the registrar.
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Further to Sue's clear explanation about banns, I'd just add that, if the future spouses live in different parishes, the banns have to be read in the both churches: the one where the wedding will take place and the one where the other spouse lives.

Having stagnated abroad for many years while changes have taken place "at home", I can't tell you what happens now when couples get married at "wedding venues": fancy hotels, country houses and the like.

 
Glenda R said:
Alas, I've been here a long time (since I was 3), and I too am married to a furriner. :rolleyes:
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As I said in my previous post, I have stagnated here - even my English hasn't kept up (and I'm pedantic, which doesn't help :( ) - for less time than you: I was 23 when I made the move, having married the furriner in question before I did. The good thing is that mixing blood makes for good strong brats ... and it's also a sneaky way of taking over a country, even if it is a bit slow. :D
 
Well, the marriage certificate for my grandfather arrived. Still don't have his actual birthday or place, or his mother's name. At least I have a father's name. Also, this makes his birth year change from about 1880 to about 1883. Still the mystery man. Plus, it says he was a bachelor, so that means even marrying at 52, there is no ex wife to hunt out. I'll try to put the certificate in my photo album here.
 
Glenda R said:
Well, the marriage certificate for my grandfather arrived. Still don't have his actual birthday or place, or his mother's name. At least I have a father's name. Also, this makes his birth year change from about 1880 to about 1883. Still the mystery man. Plus, it says he was a bachelor, so that means even marrying at 52, there is no ex wife to hunt out. I'll try to put the certificate in my photo album here.
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Ma-dotcom said:
Hi Glenda, & welcome in. Is it known if your G'ather was simply 'Bert' or perhaps originally 'Albert', Herbert, Bertram, Hubert or one of several other 'Berts?
Looking at 1891 census in Notts alone there are several Berts one or two Alberts,- one being corrected from Taylor by a viewer.

(1)Do you have marriage cert?
(2) Does it show his Father?
(3) who were witnesses?

Sorry about the quiz, but any little bit helps.
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Can you answer any of Ma-dotcom's questions now that you have the certificate? Also what was his father's occupation?
 
Sorry, Glenda, I've just seen that you've uploaded the certificate into your album.

I can't make out your great-grandfather's profession, which might have helped track down Bert on the Censuses. I see that he appears to have a sibling who was a witness at the wedding, but who signed, rather unhelpfully, J Lee, instead of his/her full name. Would your Mum have heard of him/her?

After another look, with a squint and a magnifying glass, does it say that William was a painter?
 
Yes the certificate says his father was William, who was a painter. I may have found his family. From my original post where I said that Mom said he talked to her once about being from a town half in and out of Wales, like Chester, I did a search on the 1881 Census and 1891 Census for a William in Chester with a key word of painter. Out of 19 records for William in Chester, only one was for a painter. I haven't found a family member yet with the initial J. But this particular William had a sister named May. That is my mother's middle name, yet also a name on my grandmother's side. So perhaps a coincidence. I've started a separate family tree on a* with just this William's family in hopes of finding someone connected to him on there who might have information on the family that would make sense as to why my grandfather was so secretive about his past. I've also done the dna test and am looking forward to getting the results. Who knows, I may be related to someone here. ;)
 
The William Lee in the family I'm checking out has an Uncle named James Lee and an Aunt Jane Lee. Perhaps I'm still on the right track.
 
Old Stoneface said:
I see that he appears to have a sibling who was a witness at the wedding, but who signed, rather unhelpfully, J Lee, instead of his/her full name. Would your Mum have heard of him/her?
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I think the J. Lee who signed, was [possibly] the Minister of the Parish Church of Beeston, Nott's.

May not be a relative after all.
 
I agree, I just looked again and J. Lee would be the minister. Could a minister also be a relative? Perhaps I should try to locate Nellie Lowman Johnson, a witness. The other witness, George Lowe, may be a harder find. However, she is probably deceased, and may not have passed down any information about my grandfather.
 
A relative could certainly officiate at a wedding. I've come across a John Romanis Lee who was listed as a curate at Beeston Church in 1904. This may be your man but we'd have to dig a bit deeper>
http://www.
mocavo.co.uk/The-Oxford-Cambridge-Yearbook-1904-Volume-2/273280/407
 
Flook said:
A relative could certainly officiate at a wedding. I've come across a John Romanis Lee who was listed as a curate at Beeston Church in 1904. This may be your man but we'd have to dig a bit deeper>
http://www.
mocavo.co.uk/The-Oxford-Cambridge-Yearbook-1904-Volume-2/273280/407
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Comparing the signature on the marriage certificate with the signature on the 1911 census entry, these appear to be 2 quite separate people.

1911 Ref:RG14PN20262 RG78PN1214 RD427 SD4 ED4 SN310
 
Flook said:
Comparing the signature on the marriage certificate with the signature on the 1911 census entry, these appear to be 2 quite separate people.
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If the marriage certificate is from the GRO it won't have the original signatures though. :(

I have found one other reference to Rev. Lee. This page about the Beeston Sea Scouts refers to the arrival of Rev. J. Lee 'from Battle in Sussex' in April 1935 and becoming GSM (Group Scout Master?):

http://www.
beeston-notts.co.uk/2bss2.shtml

there's a link on that page to a group photo including Rev. J. Lee. Unfortunately it doesn't leave us any the wiser about what the J. stood for.
 
LOL. Thanks for all the helpful insights. I think instead of racking my brain right now, I'll wait and see if the dna thingy helps find some relatives from his side. Right now my Mom's in the hospital and I need to visit her as much as possible, and there's lots going on here. It's only 90 degrees here right now, so I can't blame the heatwave yet. :D Thank you all so very much for all the help. :)
 
Glenda R said:
Perhaps I should try to locate Nellie Lowman Johnson, a witness.
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I've been trying to locate Nellie, as she does have an unusual middle name (Lomas?).

Nellie Lomas Johnson, 32, a shoe fitter, born Leicester, is one of numerous lodgers in a crowded lodging house in Loughborough, Leicestershire, in 1911. She is with husband Richard Chas Johnson, and what are probably their four children Naomi (9), another Nellie Lomas (7), Richard (5) and Harry (2) but all are just called lodgers.
Ref. RG 14/19107, ED 9, not sure what the schedule number is meant to be (the original number was maybe 318 but has been crossed out, and the several pages of the schedule individually numbered 364 onwards; on Ancestry it's image 642 of 735 in that enumeration district).

From FreeBMD a Nellie Lomas Peak married in the last quarter of 1900 in the Newport P[agnell] registration district. A Richard Charles Johnson has matching volume/page numbers.

There's a birth registration for a Nellie Lomas Johnson, presumably their daughter, in the same district in the last quarter of 1903. A tree on Ancestry has the daughter marrying in the Basford district in 1929 so it was presumably the mother who was a witness at the wedding in 1935.

It might be worth investigating whether she was related to bride or groom in some way.
 
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