Edward Theodore YOUNG

[Ma-dotcom]

Am now looking at a list of streets in Witney, making my earlier post look like hallucinations on my part.

I wonder if street names have changed much over the years, not many roads named '.... st'. at all.

 

[mugwortismy cat]

The groom was George Collingwood Banks, artist, his father George Linnaeus Banks, author

Famous enough to have a short Wikipedia page, but that makes his mother Isabella Varley aka Isabella Banks aka Mrs George Linnaeus Banks novelist who warrants a longer Wikipedia page

 

[Findem]

Huncamunca you're amazing, I got lost several times reading the posts on this thread, how you can wade through all that stuff, make sense of it and retain sanity blows my mind.

 

[Ma-dotcom]

Not found a Baptism, perhaps it came much later, & with it the name Theodore.
meantime maybe this is his birth reg'n.
Edward Young
Birth Registration Jul-Aug-Sep. 1879
Registration District Mile End Old Town London 1.2 miles from Bow.
Mile End Old Town, London, England
Volume 1C-535
Line Number 137
..........................

 

[mugwortismy cat]

I like a good musician in the family

And found out that Adam John Cater was an accordion & concertina maker (I love the accordion)

Right now must stop playing and get some sleep -- insomnia must admit its limits, I insist, good grief it's practically morning

 

[mugwortismy cat]

Not found a Baptism, perhaps it came much later, & with it the name Theodore.
meantime maybe this is his birth reg'n.
Edward Young
Birth Registration Jul-Aug-Sep. 1879
Registration District Mile End Old Town London 1.2 miles from Bow.
Mile End Old Town, London, England
Volume 1C-535
Line Number 137
..........................

No, I'm sure that one isn't him. Think he had a father William (from memory). The one we are looking for is Zegerus Theodore Young

 

[Archie's Mum]

I have just come to this most fascinating thread. If I need a detective I think I might employ Huncamunca.
A whisper in your ear!!! If you have no chocolate then a teaspoon of Milo does the trick (or two or three) Just make sure it's Milo and not instant coffee (turn the light on)

 

[Sis]

Huncamunca you're amazing, I got lost several times reading the posts on this thread, how you can wade through all that stuff, make sense of it and retain sanity blows my mind.

Ditto, is what I say!!

 

[AnnB]

I've seen a Dutch genealogy website which lists 28 DE JONGH VAN ARKELs, though I think there is some repetition, there are some Zegerus Theodores that aren't mine, there was one in 1786 and one in 1864 (and maybe others)

(this from memory as each time I try to explore further my machine hangs/freezes -- probably not the websites fault but I am loath to try again or post a link)

FamilySearch has some DE JONGH VAN ARKELs in Holland and South Africa

Anyway, I just added a

• Web: Netherlands, GenealogieOnline Trees Index, 1000-Current (in Dutch)

to William Theodorus de Jongh van Arkel (b 1818 Holland, d 1890 Shoreditch) the father of Edward Theodore Young Sr, and I fear it's the equivalent of adding an Ancestry tree but hope not ...

The 1786 Zegerus would be his father which makes sense

I think that must be the same site that I was (trying) to look at It took ages to get there, then it froze then I decided not to try any more - just in case I didn't manage to read much of it before I gave up.

Ann

 

[Huncamunca]

Am now looking at a list of streets in Witney, making my earlier post look like hallucinations on my part.

I wonder if street names have changed much over the years, not many roads named '.... st'. at all.

A lot of the roads in 21st century Witney didn't exist a century ago, Wendy: it has sprawled a lot and had a lot of infilling to fit in the population boom. I did live in a very old Street here for many years, but now live in a very new Way.

The street where the family was living in 1911, West End, was briefly called West Street in the 1890s when the Urban District Council tried to rationalise the names and numbering of houses. It is shown as West Street on the 1890s O.S. map. But everyone went on calling it West End and the UDC had to admit defeat in the end. (Looking at the 'W' in Witney on the card, I'm sure the mystery street name doesn't begin with a 'W'.)

After looking at the image on Ancestry I am fairly sure now that it must be High St. I would like it to say 89d High St (as that's where J. Viner was in the 1916 directory) but not sure if it does.

I did think I saw
c/o Miss Poole

Ah, yes! I see the Poole now! Well done Wendy. (I first wanted it to be Miss Early and then tried to make it Mrs Lucy... and then gave up.) I will look for Pooles and Viners in directories etc. to see where they lived after 1911.

 

[AnnB]

I don't think we've been there - but there is a tree on Ancestry by the name of
De Jongh Van Arkel Family Tree. It is quite large - might help to sort out the older branches of the family? it does go as far as Zegerus and Harriett Cater, plus all their children, but has Zegurus jun. down as Tegerus T De Jongh VanArkel

Apologies if you've already seen it

Ann

 

[Huncamunca]

how you can . . . retain sanity blows my mind.

I don't think I am sane any more, Findem!
but it is not Edward Theodore Young's fault.

(Once I read a book called Staying Sane but it didn't work.)

 

[Huncamunca]

There's more info about the Van Arkel family here and on linked pages:
http://
genea.pedete.net/zeevang/4420.htm

It has Zegerus Theodorus de Jongh [van Arkel] born 24 April 1849 at Oosthuizen, in Zeevang en Wormerland
son of Willem Theodorus de Jongh alias de Jongh van Arkel (born about 1819) and Johanna Hendrika de Boe(u)ff (born about 1830) who had married in 1847.

another child Johannes was born at Oosthuizen in 1852.

FreeBMD has these two death registrations, which look like they could be the parents of Zegerus senior:

William T. de J. Van Arkel, 71, Shoreditch district, first quarter of 1890

Johanna Hendricka de J. Van Arkel, 75, St Olave district, third quarter of 1903.

So we should be able to find them on some censuses . . .

 

[Ma-dotcom]

Would this be himself then?
Tegerus Theodoras Young 1888/89 Bethnal Green North East Division 23 Morpeth street
ZegerasTheodore, Young 1895 Hackney Hoxton 10 Hamilton buildings

There is a Theodore Young,1900/01/02 at 25 Sonning buildings, Bethnal Green & various other Youngs with Theodore as 2nd name, male & female.

 

[mugwortismy cat]

I don't think we've been there - but there is a tree on Ancestry by the name of
De Jongh Van Arkel Family Tree. It is quite large - might help to sort out the older branches of the family? it does go as far as Zegerus and Harriett Cater, plus all their children, but has Zegurus jun. down as Tegerus T De Jongh VanArkel

Apologies if you've already seen it

Ann

Only vaguely glanced at trees on Ancestry and not found them too helpful. I have managed to get back to Zegerus 1786 using various sources on Ancestry, and have a bit of extended family. The major problem seems to be finding the English de Jongh van Arkels in the census ... as Huncamunca says we have evidence of them in the BMDs but the census so far has eluded me

(besides Ann, as you well know, being the extended family of my cousin's spouse makes them a diversion which runs the risk of distracting me from my task of sorting out the descendants of the Beaminster Elliotts ... doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it ...)

 

[Huncamunca]

So we should be able to find them on some censuses . . .

Easier said than done! In desperation I searched for Luthera (without surname) and found this 1881 census which could be them if they've dropped the van Arkel:
19 Warwick ? (looking on a few pages, it's probably Warwick Villas), Hackney:
Jonk..(?) W. de Jongh, head, 62, commission agent
Johanna H. , wife, 52
Jan(de?), son, 28, worker in a chemical wks
Cornel..., son, 26?, florist lab
Joha(na?) H., dau, 20, confection
Luthera, daur, 17, embroider
Hen..etta S., 16, scholar
all born 'Netherland'
RG 11/309, f.41, p.59.

Then this could be some of the same people in 1891:
27 Huntingdon Buildings, Bethnal Green
Joha ['nna' inserted here] Young, widow, 62, living on own means
John do, son, s, 38, warehouseman
Henriette do, daur, s, 26
all born Holland
oops didn't note the reference for this.

 

[AnnB]

(besides Ann, as you well know, being the extended family of my cousin's spouse makes them a diversion which runs the risk of distracting me from my task of sorting out the descendants of the Beaminster Elliotts ... doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it ...)

If I may say so Muggy, you certainly have the knack of finding really interesting and demanding puzzles........if it wasn't for you, I would have to be doing something really boring (think if the h.......k word) - keep it up - please

Now, off to the census's, although I'm not holding my breath

Ann

 

[Huncamunca]

A few bits and bobs from the library

1. From OFHS parish register transcripts on fiche:

Marriage at Witney St Mary (the ancient parish church on Church Green)
18 June 1910
Chas. Henry Boyce POOLE, 22, bach., weaver, son of Charles [Poole], plumber, and
Ida May VINER, 19, sp., dau. of Joseph [Viner], roadman
witnesses: Joseph Frederick Pratley, Laura Matilda Viner.
[presumably by banns as it does not say otherwise]

Baptisms at Holy Trinity, Wood Green
19 April 1908 - VINER Horace Randolph, son of Laura Viner
10(?) March 1911 - POOLE Frederick Bernard (BOYCE), son of Charles Henry (butcher) and Ida May
(I think it is 10th but can't decipher my own handwriting! The transcriber has written BOYCE in brackets after the other Christian names)
23 July 1916 - POOLE, Elsie Sybil, dau. of Charles (postman) and Ida May
7 December 1918 - POOLE, Hilda Boyce, dau. of Charles (soldier) and Ida May

2. Absent voters' list, published in The People of Witney, Vol. 2 (Eureka Partnership).
I failed to note the date of the list but think it is 1918.

POOLE, Charles Henry, 89a High Street, TR/10/49291 Cpl. 52nd Middlesex.

 

[Mealymoo]

This thread had made fascinating reading . Huncamunca, you are a wonder woman who never fails to impress me. How you 'do it' I don't know, but 'do it' you always do!

 

[mugwortismy cat]

found this 1881 census which could be them if they've dropped the van Arkel

Agreed , at least that's all I could find too , and it sort of matches ... although the Cornel?? is completely new I can identify the rest even if distorted

Didn't get as far as looking for the 1891, but I am sure that is the right one too

A few bits and bobs from the library

Thank you