Unmuddying the water ... If only

spison

spison

Well-Known Member
This post is open for anyone to assist if you can but its real purpose is to encourage descendants to consider what is on their trees and to contribute the references that have been used so that all descendants have this information.

I have been looking at my husband’s ancestry off and on since the 1980s. There is no doubt that he is descended from Ann DAVIS and her second husband, George SOMERS. Nobody descended from Ann is in any doubt about her ancestry, her fate after the death of her parents, her two marriages and her death, but there is considerable disagreement about the identity of her parents – even though everyone agrees on their names.

I do not live in Tasmania but intend to go soon and investigate John and Mary further so if any kind person would provide any references to Mary’s Factory admission/s or any other items that are not online, it would be greatly appreciated. Online trees have used the research undertaken in about 1980 but none state what these references were. I cannot totally agree with this research but am very happy to change my research if someone can provide references that prove I am wrong or if more information is found. I don’t care how long someone has been looking at a person, if their initial premise is wrong, then everything resulting from this research will be too! Now that Trove is providing access to the Tasmanian newspapers online I am surprised that nobody has checked their research and found what is there.


Ann DAVIS was the third child of John DAVIS and Mary BROWN who married in Hobart Town on 9 December 1822. I have voiced my ideas about who these two people were to two other descendants and I thank them for their feedback and assistance with Ann’s life after she was orphaned. I do however have concerns about the identity of her parents and in an attempt to pull all that information together I have compiled what I have and included references. Please check my references and tell me where and why I am wrong. I have highlighted information that I have found that nobody has included on their online trees.

Two further posts will be made outlining what I know about Mary BROWN and John DAVIS. If you know more please make a post and include the reference/s. Currently there are about ten online trees that conflict. I don't agree totally with any of them. Please don't add information about Ann and her marriages as we all seem to agree with what happened to her.

Jane
 
Mary BROWN (c.1792-1827)
(Search Trove Newspapers using - “Mary Davis nee Brown”. There are currently five big articles that will be located so use Control F to search for Davis. For consistency, if more articles are able to be located, the tags should be recorded in exactly the same way and left as public tags so that others may also locate them.)

Note 1: Many trees name this woman as Mary ‘BROWNE.’ A reference for this spelling would be greatly appreciated as every record quoted here spells her surname ‘BROWN.’
Note 2: The original Tasmanian BDM church records are now available online so you can download your own copies of ALL of Mary's children. Everything new I have found is written in red.
Note 3: An excellent tool to eliminate women named Mary BROWN (or BROWNE) who were in VDL by the 9 December 1822 is the book or CD named “Notorious Strumpets and Dangerous Girls” by Philip TARDIFF. I have used it in conjunction with the conduct reports that are online.

What is known of Mary BROWN
1. Mary stated that she was 30 when she married in 1822 – ie. b. 1892. (Tas. BDM original records are now available online)
2. The marriage to John DAVIS records that Mary was ‘free’ on 9 December 1822.
3. Mary had four children – two were legitimate and two were illegitimate. John DAVIS reportedly accepted that the older girls were also his daughters. Why online trees have not identified all four of Mary’s children cannot be fathomed as they are clearly recorded in Tasmania’s BDM. The actual records for the two illegitimate baptisms of Jane and Mary show that they were the illegitimate children of Mary BROWN and that they were baptized by Rev. KNOPWOOD who later married the couple and who baptized Ann.
4. Before John’s execution “some relations of Davis took charge of three of the children, leaving only the youngest, seven months old, to the care of its mother”. This child was John who was shown as an orphan when he was baptized in 1827. This is an important statement and I am still working on who these relations may be! (Hobart Town Gazette on 27 Jan 1827)
5. It is sad to state it here but Mary did not die of a broken heart a few weeks after John’s death but was reportedly cohabiting with a man named HERRING while John was awaiting execution … (although this may just be salacious gossip reported in the newspapers at the time). (Hobart Town Gazette on 13 Jan 1827)
6. There is no record of Mary’s death or burial in Tasmania BDM but she did not die in September 1826.
7. Mary died in Hobart on Friday, 5 January 1827. (The death date can be easily calculated from the article in the Hobart Town Gazette on 6 Jan 1827.)
8. After Mary’s death John and Jane were taken in by “a woman named PARKER” and Ann was informally adopted by Robert EVANS. No trace of Mary has been found.

What can be safely assumed about Mary BROWN.
1. Mary had been transported. (This is VDL in 1822. There were almost no free women arriving unaccompanied by this date. She was admitted to the Female Factory and this is unlikely to have occurred with a woman who had arrived free. Photos of her daughter, Ann, indicate nothing to suggest that Mary was of aboriginal descent.)
2. Mary therefore must have had a pardon or been free by servitude at the time she married so she had to have been tried before 1815 at the latest. (1822-7=1815)

Who was Mary BROWN?
The conduct reports of the three women who may be Mary BROWN are now available online. It is unlikely that a conduct report would be missing for the female convicts of VDL but if there is another woman who I have missed, please post the link to her conduct report or identify her and provide the necessary references. The following women were in VDL and were free so could all have married John DAVIS on 9 December 1822.
1. No. 8143: Brown, Mary (1); arrived VDL on 28 Apr 1816 per Kangaroo - To NSW per Alexander
This woman was twenty in 1815 (b. 1895) but her conduct report – which for some reason is NOT in chronological order – indicates that she married ‘Redman’ and was married to him between 1821 and 1825. She is unlikely to have been having children to John DAVIS and still be the wife of Redman and her conduct report shows that she died in 1868 from the effects of burning. TARDIF in ‘Notorious Strumpets …’ does suggest that this burning notation may refer to ‘No. 257’ but her conduct report confirms that she was alive on 8 June 1827, so she outlived the wife of John DAVIS. She is not the appropriate ancestor.
2. No. 40560: Brown, Mary (2) alias KIRK, Mary; arrived VDL on 28 Apr 1816 per Kangaroo - To NSW per Alexander
This woman was nineteen in 1816 (b. 1897). TARDIF reports that the 1820 Muster shows that she was married to Andrew BENT. She received a Certificate of Freedom on 19 September 1822. Nothing more is recorded for her on the conduct report but Andrew BENT became an historical figure and was quite well off. Mary, the wife of Andrew BENT, died in NSW in 1846. At least nine death or obituary notices that confirm the burial record appear on Trove. She is not the correct ancestor.
3. No. 8144: Brown, Mary; arrived VDL on 7 Feb 1816 per Emu - To NSW per Francis & Eliza
Mary was 24 in 1815 (b.1891). Her conduct report shows that there were incidents in 1817, 1818 and 1819 and then nothing until 16 January 1826, when Mary, who was free by servitude, was suspected of a felony and was committed for trial at the Criminal Court. Nothing further is recorded. No newspaper reports of the results of any trial have yet been found. There is no indication of any children or marriage. This woman has the best match for the stated age of thirty in 1822. What happened on 16 January 1826? This was not the date of the theft of the sheep from David LORD by John DAVIS. I believe that this is the woman who was the wife or John and the mother of Ann DAVIS.


John will follow.

Jane
 
spison said:
8. After Mary’s death John and Jane were taken in by “a woman named PARKER”
Jane
Click to expand...

Sorry, This should read
John and Mary were taken by a woman named PARKER, as the 1828 Children's Census shows these two children in the care of William PARKER of Argyle Street, Hobart, and being reared as Protestants. (p.8 of the book written by one of the STOCKS descendants of which I have a copy. No idea of the actual reference from Tas. Archives.)

Jane
 
Trove articles have been tagged as "John Davis". If you find others please tag them exactly the same way so that they can more easily be found. There are some extremely detailed reports of the last hours of the condemned men but not one mentions any ships of arrival!
What is known of John DAVIS
1. He stated that he was 35 when he married.
2. He was reported to be nearly fifty when he was executed.
3. He was reputedly from a farming family. (Newspaper reference)
4. He was free by 9 December 1822 so was either free by servitude or had received a pardon.
5. On 3 October 1825, (Hobart Town Gazette 1 July 1826) he was involved in sheep stealing from David LORD. No trial details appear in the papers until May 1826.
6. He was reported to have accepted the four children of Mary BROWN.

What can be safely assumed about John DAVIS
1. He was a convict. If this was not the case it is certain that the newspapers would have stated this and connected him with the free man rather than the other men executed.
2. He was transported either to NSW and was then transferred or travelled to VDL either directly or via Norfolk Island or alternatively, he was transported directly to VDL.
3. He was the father to the four children of Mary BROWN or he accepted these children as his.
4. He was almost certainly imprisoned from shortly after the 3 October 1825.

What can probably be assumed about John DAVIS
He appears somewhere on a muster in either VDL or Norfolk Island.

Who was John DAVIS?
I honestly don't know so I'm not prepared to attribute a ship of arrival. Have I missed a man?
Men named John DAVIS known to be in VDL by December 1822 arranged by name of ship according to the Tasmanian Archives site AND OTHER RECORDS. The first 4 are candidates. There may be others. Some online trees state that he came on the Pilot but the Pilot was not a convict transport!
1. Life per Indefatigable – his conduct report hasn’t been found (Ralph Churton was on this ship – and he has no conduct report) According to the Indefatigable indent this John DAVIS came straight to VDL and didn't go to NSW first.
2. 7 years per Earl Cornwallis to NSW – there is no Conduct report or reference to this man who appears on the 1811 muster for Norfolk Island. He almost certainly ended up in VDL. There is a man of this name in Windsor in 1825. There were three men of this name on the voyage - all transported for seven years.
3. 7 years per Calcutta – conduct report not available online
4. (alias William Trimm) Life per Calcutta – conduct report not available online (NB. The William Trimm executed in 1818 reportedly came on the Minerva – he has no reference or conduct report.)
These man are eliminated as they are alive and not in prison in and after 1826
5. per Sir William Bensley to NSW and Pilot to VDL – this conduct report hasn’t been found but a man of this name and from this ship is in Newcastle in 1825. Only one man appears on the indent so it is unlikely that this is the correct man.
6. per Fanny to NSW and Pilot to VDL – alive in 1827 and on public works 1826M
7. per Morley to NSW and Pilot to VDL – still alive 1827 and on public works 1826M
8. per Maria – still alive April 1827 (Hobart Town Gazette – 7 April 1827) on Public works 1826M
9. per Wyndham – Archives show that he was tried again in 1834 when he was free. No search undertaken for the Conduct Report.
10. per Duke of Portland and Lady Nelson to VDL – Conduct report notation “died Hobart 1847”
11. (1) per Elizabeth 1816 (tried Middlesex 1815) – Conduct report shows two notations – “run in 1823” and “struck off records in Dec ‘53” – unlikely as our ancestor can’t have been a runner as he had a hut and/or land that he worked. “Absconded” 1826M
12. per Medway – “assistant to Mr Sorrell” 1826M

Here is some food for thought.
Of the other men executed with John DAVIS on 18 September 1826, only two have a conduct reports
George FARQUHARSON: This man had arrived free. His conduct report – probably for a Colonial Sentence – is not available online but the online index indicates that he was tried May 1825 and executed
Thomas SAVILLE: Conduct report clearly indicates that he was executed on 18 September 1826
Robert GRANT: (per Dromedary) – notation “Executed” on Conduct Report – no date
John CRUITT or CRUTE or CRUSE: No reference or conduct report found
Robert CABLE: No reference or conduct report found
Patrick BROWN: (prob. per Chapman – Hobart Town Gazette etc 18 May 1822.) No conduct report found
James ROWLES: (prob. per Lord Melville) No conduct report located and only one man from the Lord Melville appears in the book.

My head hurts!
Jane
 
I really have no idea whether this is your Mary Brown!
But I will give it a stab anyway.
Hobart Town Gazette Sat. Oct 8 1825 and again Nov 26 1825.
"Thomas Munday- 5ft 7 1/4, brown hair, hazel eyes 32 years old, a farmers labourer, tried at Middlesex Dec 1820, sentence life arrived by the Countess Harcourt, born New Eller, Oxford, woman Mary Brown, right arm hearts and darts left arm, absconded from Port Dalrymple 8th August 1825. 2 pound reward.
The Mary Brown mentioned here appears to be free at the time.
 
Free Settler or Felon.
"Pilot departed Cork 9 March 1817. After a voyage of 142 days the Pilot arrived in Port Jackson on 29 July 1817. 117 prisoners were landed on Friday morning 8th August.......
The Pilot departed Port Jackson bound for Hobart in Sept 1817"
 
Ahhh! Thankyou Archie's Mum. I'm glad I have an unbiased pair of eyes looking for me. So the Pilot did make a voyage as a transport. I stand corrected!

Unfortunately I can't find any man named John DAVIS on the Pilot Indent in 1817. He was therefore collected in Sydney or omitted from the indent. There are three men who are reported to have come on the Pilot from NSW, after having arrived on the Fanny, the Morley and the Sir William Bensley and I feel I have found the three of them after John was known to be dead.

The men from the Fanny and the Sir William Bensley supposedly came on this voyage of the Pilot as they are listed in the online index as having arrived on 28 September 1817. But the link attached to these men beside the 'other records' takes you to a transfer to the Derwent per the Pilot and they don't appear on the indent (Image 81 on the link for anyone who is hunting) so clearly the CON31/1/1 p.104 reference is wrong. I'm yet to be convinced that ANY of the men who are listed as arriving on the Pilot is my man as I believe that they all were alive post 1826.

As to the Mary BROWN that you found, I think that the location of Port Dalrymple makes this being my Mary unlikely and at this stage she had had three small daughters in Hobart and was probably pregnant. Unfortunately my Mary has no description available in Tasmanian records and none is on the Francis and Eliza Indent that is online. I'm not sure that one exists.

You can see why I have been looking at this lot since about 1980. It just gets too confusing so I have to periodically stop and sort out the extras I have added!

Jane
 
You may already be using this site, but just in case

http://
foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch
 
Just as a matter of interest, this is the first time I have this but twice today, on both Mary's and another record.
What does AWHH mean on convict records? Also Rev RK
Thanks
 
Could this be it?

RUNAWAYS.
POLICE OFFICE, HOBART TOWN.
THE undermentioned Persons, having absented themselves from their usual Places of Residence, all Constables and Others are hereby required to use their utmost Exertions to apprehend and lodge them in safe Custody.
A. W. H. Humphrey,
Superintendent of Police.
Click to expand...
AWHH being the initials of the Superintendent of Police.

Rev. RK = (Rev RK) Returned to the public works, Rev Robert Knopwood
 
There is one conduct report for a John DAVIES that shows no ship of arrival or trial details. It is not linked to any John DAVIS nor to any John DAVIES. (No man named John DAVIES arrived in VDL in time to marry Mary BROWN.) It can be found by searching for Stephen DIPROSE, going to the link for his conduct report and going to Image 18 - (DIPROSE is on image 19). The men on the image 19 also have no ship of arrival but the online index indicates that they came on the Almorah which is linked with the Pilot in the indent index - the 'other records' CON31/1/1 above. This record is certainly for a man who was in VDL by about 1818 as the record is arranged chronologically by ship of arrival under the beginning letter of the surname. I think that this conduct report must refer to the man who came on the Sir William Bensley for whom there is no link to a conduct report. Nothing further is on the report after 30 December 1818, when he committed a felony and was sent to Hobart. This is the man who I may have in Newcastle in 1825 which would make sense if he received transportation as a secondary punishment as that's what Newcastle was used for at this time.

I have found the Pilot indent on CON31/1/1 (Image 91) showing two men named John DAVIS. Their trial details are both Middlesex gaol delivery. 1 tried 29 May 1816 and sentenced to Life; the other tried 18 September 1816 and sentenced to seven years. This last man may be the Morley man as his trial location and sentence match this but the indent would need to be checked. (The Fanny man was tried in Surry).

Matching the indent information shows that the first man on the Pilot indent IS the man per the Sir William Bensley who received a Life sentence and probably got a colonial sentence and was sent to Newcastle (although this hasn't been ascertained). The clincher is that a Lifer who was tried for a felony in 1818 is highly unlikely to have been free to marry in 1822. This means that the John DAVIS per the Sir William Bensley to NSW and the Pilot to VDL isn't the correct ancestor.

This seems to me just further confirmation that the man who married Mary BROWN did not arrive from NSW on any voyage of the Pilot! This was a breakthrough of sorts I think!

Jane
 
Archie's Mum said:
Just as a matter of interest, this is the first time I have this but twice today, on both Mary's and another record.
What does AWHH mean on convict records? Also Rev RK
Thanks
Click to expand...


I think Chimp is correct with AWHH. Rev. RK = Reverend Robert Knopwood.
The bits in brackets are who made the complaint or the sentencing. Somewhere I have a copy of a book with all the Tasmanian abbreviations in it!

Jane
 
Rev. Robert Knopwood
http://
adb.anu.edu.au/biography/knopwood-robert-2314

A W H Humphrey
http://
adb.anu.edu.au/biography/humphrey-adolarius-william-henry-2212
 
I do remember seeing the Humphries name and dismissing it as an answer so thanks. I'm glad I asked.
I couldn't find it anywhere in Tasmania abbreviations.
 
Chimp said:
http://
foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch
Click to expand...


Yep Chimp and thanks. I am a member.

Last time I looked nobody had placed anything about these two convicts on the Founders and Survivors site. This site is one of the reasons that I have come back to the "tricky two" as I am concerned by the MAJOR inconsistencies on the online trees for Mary and John - if you have access to An****** you can take a look. I'm happy to not know who they were and I'm happy to have a list of possibles but once an error is submitted to the site it will be difficult to change. It would be very good to know who he is and I feel I have Mary right. I have mentioned my concerns to other descendants (and Ann was a very prolific breeder) but I'm sure that you can imagine that the reception was tepid to say the least.

From what I can see the research is always launching from the paid research done in the 1980s and so much more is now available to assist. The book based on this research states (p.3) "... (There were six men named John Davis.) Of these six only one seemed appropriate to our history concerning dates and age. ... based on the probability only that they are our forebears." (John DAVIS seven years per the Pilot (no ship to NSW named) and Mary BROWN alias Mary KIRK are then identified as the ancestors.) :(

Thanks again,

Jane
 
I helped another lady from Australia on the old site who had paid good money for a private researcher, it turned out he had gone so far back and had taken the wrong rout. He had researched a totally different family. As you say back before there was much on line researchers followed their noses but with what we have today we can cross check all our findings and discount those that don't match. I remember the lady getting quite upset at having paid out all that money for research that had nothing to do with her family.
 
Spison,
I only just noticed your reference to Kirk as an alias.
Colonial Secretary Index 1788-1825
KIRK, Mary or BROWN- per Alexander 1816 (see also Mary Brent)
1816 April 10, on list of convicts embarked on the Kangaroo for the Derwent. Listed as KIRK (reel 6004; 4/394 page 61
BENT Mary per Alexander as Mary BROWN or KIRK.
1821 Jun 6 of Hobart. petition for mitigation of sentence. (Fiche 3206 4/1862 page 16
 
A silly question from a complete amateur. But if no-one is sure of how John Davis got here, and who he really is, how do they know that he was convicted at Middlesex?
 
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