Unmuddying the water ... If only

Just an update with three new references that add to the evidence that I am building to support the ships of arrival of Mary BROWN (Francis and Eliza) and John DAVIS (Indefatigable).

I found a book:
Land Musters, Stock Returns and Lists, Van Diemen's Land 1803 - 1822 ed. Irene SCHAFFER
It contained three transcribed lists that are relevant and aren't (that I know of) reproduced anywhere else. They were musters of FREE men and women in Hobart Town and the 1822 list was probably compiled before John and Mary married in December 1822.

The 1818 list shows one John DAVIS who Came Free. No ship recorded.

The 1822 list of free men shows two John DAVIS. One Came free on the Windham in 1814 (almost certainly the same man from 1818) and one with a conditional pardon (and you guessed it no ship of arrival!) who is almost certainly the man per the Indefatigable who received a conditional pardon in 1819.

The 1822 list of free women shows Mary BROWN free by servitude who had arrived on the Francis and Eliza. No trace of any other Mary BROWN is recorded. No children are recorded with Mary and I think there should have been 1 - a girl named Jane. There is a Jane DAVIS recorded in the list who was born in the colony but there is no age.

The Wyndham man was alive in 1834 (see post #4). And clearly he wasn't initially a convict but also clearly he wasn't the man I'm after.

Jane
 
spison said:
There are three men who are reported to have come on the Pilot from NSW, after having arrived on the Fanny, the Morley and the Sir William Bensley and I feel I have found the three of them after John was known to be dead. ... I'm yet to be convinced that ANY of the men who are listed as arriving on the Pilot is my man as I believe that they all were alive post 1826. ... Jane
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Found an old file concerning YET ANOTHER John DAVIS in VDL so it is going here and I will delete the original. It is irrelevant to me but it is important and only available in HRA (Historical Records of Australia - the Blue Book). Transcribed from Series III; Vol 4.

"Affidavit of J. DAVIS re. loss of Certificate of Freedom
Van Diemen's Land to WIT
John DAVIS maketh oath and saith that he was tried at Salop in the month of January, One thousand eight hundred and seventeen, received Sentence of Transportation for seven years, and that he arrived at Port Jackson on the ship Morley in the year One thousand, eight hundred and eighteen. And this Deponent further saith that he became free by Servitude in the month of January, one thousand, eight hundred and twenty-four, and that he accordingly obtained his certificate of freedom. And deponent further saith that he arrived in this settlement on the brig Nerus in the month of February, one thousand eight hundred and Twenty-four, bringing with him his said Certificate ..."

Jane
 
spison said:
Found an old file concerning YET ANOTHER John DAVIS in VDL so it is going here and I will delete the original. It is irrelevant to me but it is important and only available in HRA (Historical Records of Australia - the Blue Book). Transcribed from Series III; Vol 4.

"Affidavit of J. DAVIS re. loss of Certificate of Freedom
Van Diemen's Land to WIT
John DAVIS maketh oath and saith that he was tried at Salop in the month of January, One thousand eight hundred and seventeen, received Sentence of Transportation for seven years, and that he arrived at Port Jackson on the ship Morley in the year One thousand, eight hundred and eighteen. And this Deponent further saith that he became free by Servitude in the month of January, one thousand, eight hundred and twenty-four, and that he accordingly obtained his certificate of freedom. And deponent further saith that he arrived in this settlement on the brig Nerus in the month of February, one thousand eight hundred and Twenty-four, bringing with him his said Certificate ..."

Jane
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Just adding to this by explaining that this can't be my man as this letter was written on 31 October 1825 by Rev. HOPWOOD. The man I am after was almost certainly in prison from early October 1825 so this letter would almost certainly not have been written. Rev. Hopwood married John Davis and Mary Brown in 1822 so would have known the man sentenced to death and would have known he was in gaol at the time the letter was written so it must be about a different John DAVIS.
Jane
 
Tasmanian records have now put direct links to names on their site. It is wonderful that this has happened but they have been unable to make the links for my executed John DAVIS (d.1826) that have laboriously been located and eliminated by myself and others on this thread. John has caused so much confusion for so many researchers. (Mainly because the records that are attributed to the man who arrived on the Indefatigable do not name the ship!)

What should I do? Should I contact them with a summary of this information or hope that someone at the archives will now make the links we have managed to do here! :(

Jane
 
Thanks Jane for rearranging my day that I had arranged with other things. :)
I have now found some newfound interest in your John Davis and have found also some more works by Irene Schaffer. Again will reread this post later.
As to your dilemma. I don't think contact would hurt. Never know till you try!
 
Remember back in post #26 I said this ...
spison said:
... 3. John DAVIS 7 years per Calcutta 1803 (to Port Phillip aka Melbourne) – conduct report not available online. No trace found. Unless this man was transported as a teenager he would not fit the age range of being between 35 and 45 in 1822. ...
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well ... this is the man that previous researchers believe is the ancestor. I am not going to even think about following this up for a while as I don't have time at present BUT researchers believe that he didn't come straight to VDL but went sealing (possibly with Kable - 1806M) and had all sorts of adventures before arriving in VDL on a voyage of the Pilot in about 1817.

This Calcutta transportee is a possible man. He was 14 at the time of trial on 2 June 1802 at the Old Bailey. If the references for many of his quite surprising adventures can be found then they will prove that his story is astounding. There must be some documents as the exploits are the sort of things that are so improbable they are likely to be true and so specific they must have been recorded somewhere - and no, I will not elaborate on them here at this time (but they're not embarrassing.)

Because the Calcutta went to Port Phillip it is a bit of a mess so I am pasting these references to the Calcutta taken from a 2002 post on another forum. I suspect many are now available online on Ancestry but I haven't checked.

1. Indents, 1788-1842, CGS 12188: Indents 1801-1814 (SRNSW ref: 4/4004 pp 152-172; SR Fiche 630-634, SR Reel 392, COD 138)

2. Musters & other papers relating to Convict ships, 1790-1849, CGS 1155 (SRNSW ref: 2/8249 pp 89-96; SR Reel 24 COD 918)

3. Transportation Register 1787-1809 (PRO ref: HO 11/1 pp 333-345; PRO Reel 87

4. Colonial Office NSW Entry Books - Letters from Secretary of State (despatches) 1801-1807 (Pro ref: CO 202/6 pp 107-109; Reel 56)

There is also the chance that Knopwood's diary, a copy of which is at the NLA and the original is at the Mitchell Library, Sydney, may mention more of the details of the man who was executed as Knopwood was one of those who provided pastoral care before the execution and was the man who married John and Mary.

All in all I'm back to two men. (Now my head hurts again and my heart has sunk a little!)
Jane
 
Who is 'Kable' that you mention above. Is it the Robert Cable mentioned earlier? I have a Robert Cable, convict who arrived in 1806......will have to check his transport.
Duke of Portland 1807 Port Jackson
 
Archie's Mum said:
Who is 'Kable' that you mention above. Is it the Robert Cable mentioned earlier? I have a Robert Cable, convict who arrived in 1806......will have to check his transport.
Duke of Portland 1807 Port Jackson
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The 1806 Muster has a John Davis (no ship stated :confused:) with the notation 'Sealing, Kable's employ'. No idea which Kable/Cable it was - the one who made money from sealing and whaling would be my guess! I have been told that my John Davis went sealing and whaling before going to VDL which would make sense if he was young but I have no idea if this man is him. This is why I'm not working on it. I'm just too busy.

John is just so tricky. So close and yet so far! I will get to Tasmania perhaps next year to see whether the archives there can help. I need to see that Tasmanian conduct report that isn't available online to see what it says and also to look at Knopwood's diary. ... And a whole heap of other stuff. Faint hopes I'm afraid. If only there were some references at least you could hunt them out!

I just posted this so it was recorded somewhere. I doubt that there are any answers that are easy to get online.
Jane
 
Hi Jane, I was going to reply to your email but I thought it would be better posting here for anyone else who is interested and/or researching these people.

Let me introduce myself, I am the 5xGreat Grandson of John Davis and Mary Brown and currently live in Hobart. My mother had collected information about these people over 10 years ago and it mostly agrees with Jane's research posted here, that being: John and Mary's marriage, children, deaths and John's convictions for sheep stealing.

However, there is additional information which states John was a convict on the Calcutta, and also that was a sailor on a number of whaling voyages to Macquarie Is. and New Zealand. The problem is I have no idea if this information is correct. All I know is it was passed down through some private research which was collected for a reunion in Brisbane in 1984. The reunion was for John and Mary's daughter Ann Davis and her second husband Mark Stocks. So, until I can find some more solid proof of this link between Calcutta, whaling, John Davis and our sheep stealer from Pittwater John Davis, it only presents more questions with no answers.

For now, this is the only new information I can provide references for regarding John Davis:

In a book by Peter MacFie called "Stock Thieves and Golfers - A History of Kangaroo Bay and Rosny Farm, Tasmania 1803-1998", it has a very brief paragraph titled "Pitt-water Clan?" with the following quote:
In 1826 Gibraltar military rebel John Crute was described as a ‘notorious character’ who had long infested the settlement of Pittwater when he was executed with fellow Calcutta transportee John Davies, for stealing sheep from John Lord. Crute confessed on the scaffold, saying he had committed more sins than anyone on the island but that ‘Jesus Christ would forgive him’.
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MacFie lists the reference for this paragraph as Alexander, P.35. In his previous references to Alexander, the only book he refers to is titled Governors' Ladies by Alison Alexander, 1987. I looked at this book and it does not contain any information about John Davis or a Pitt-water sheep stealing clan. Maybe it is the wrong Alexander book, I also tried The eastern shore: A history of Clarence and Tasmania's Convicts and couldn't find anything.

For now I'm not sure where MacFie drew the connection between the Calcutta convicts and the Pitt-water sheep stealers.

I also looked at a copy of Rev. Knopwood's diary in the library. Unfortunately there is no specific mention of our John Davis in it. According to the index, there is only John Thomas Davis and John Walter Davis which are entries well after the dates of the execution. There are also a few "Mr. Davis" but nothing of importance is said about these men and I highly doubt he is writing about our John Davis.

There is no mention of John and Mary's wedding, even though he married them in December 1822.

Here is Knopwood's diary entry from the 18th September, 1826, the day John was executed:
Nine men this morning were executed; Mr. Farquarson a young man for sheep stealing; he got acquainted with Brady and McCabbe, noted bushrangers which led him to every scene of wickedness; Robt. Cable, an old servant of mine was likewise executed for sheep stealing. I was so unwell, unable to attent the execution. 5, Mr. Dawes and Dr. Garrett dind with me. Dr. G. stayd the night.
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Very interesting to note Robert Cable is mentioned and also executed for the same crimes as John. Could it be John and Robert have a long history together? Having being involved in the sealing/whaling business and then getting into this sheep stealing gang? Also both arriving on a mysterious ship with no name.. Hmm

Judging by the lack of comments about John Davis in Knopwoods diary, I don't think Knopwood and John had much to do with each other. However, it could be possible that any information about Robert Cable could help to piece together this puzzle. I didn't think at the time to check for Knopwood's entries on Cable but I plan to. Will keep you all posted on anythink new I find!

Cheers,
Nick
 
More reading about this Cable/Kable connection has led me to think there is no connection with John Davis' sealing employer "Kable" and fellow sheep stealer and servant of Rev. Knopwood "Robert Cable". Kable's employ I believe refers to Henry Kable who "bought, built or chartered many vessels and pioneered the sealing industry in Bass Strait. From about 1800, Underwood was shipbuilder, Kable took the role of ships' husband, employing crews, provisioning voyages. Seal furs were intended to go to London for the hat trade. " (source: http://www.
merchantnetworks.com.au/periods/1775after/walton1a.htm).

Newpaper articles regarding mention Robert Cable stole sheep from Mr. Sherwin whose property is on the Clyde river, which is quite far from Pitt-water where John Davis and Crute were. These are probably completely unrelated incidents of sheep stealing and it just happened that they were executed on the same day.
 
Hi Nick,
Welcome. Tricky isn't it!? Thankyou for posting this here and thankyou for looking at all the potential references. What a pity they don't help (although they don't hinder either).

I am still yet to find this John Davis per the Calcutta on a muster but he is on the indent of the Calcutta. He is in the Bound indents at the top of the 2nd page in the image which is an awful thing to read because the original and therefore the reproduction is so poor. He was tried on 2 June 1802 at the Old Bailey.

The difficulty with the Calcutta is that it went to Port Phillip (now Melbourne) and not to Sydney. From there a selection of men were taken to begin the VDL settlement. There is a good history of the establishment on the Jen Willetts site:
http://www.jenwilletts.com/convict_ship_calcutta_1803.htm

Arr!
Jane
 
Just a piece of trivia I had to add here!

At present I believe my chances of finding proof of ship of arrival (although I have not yet given up hope) are 'None and Buckleys'. This saying came from the name of an escaped convict, William Buckley.

William Buckley arrived with John Crute aka Cruitt and John Davis aboard the Calcutta! Prophetic or what!?

Jane
 
Following the John Crute angle - and I have always felt that there was a long term association between Crute and Davis - John Crute received a land grant of 30 acres in the county of Gloucester (Register 59 Number 17). On the same index a John Davis received a grant 30 acres on Norfolk Plains (Register 233 Number 9). (Index to Register of Land Grants in Colonial Secretary's papers Special Bundles 1794-1825) The smaller grants would appear to have been made to former convicts. No idea when these grants occurred apart from before 1825.

Norfolk Plains was around the Longford area of Tasmania so if this is his grant this was not where the sheep theft occurred. The theft occurred at Pitt Water close to Hobart but John seemed to have been working his own land as this was where the bodies of the sheep were buried.
Jane
 
Interesting. I agree, it seems there might be a connection with John Crute/Cruit/Cruet and John Davis through the Calcutta and also the Pitt-water sheep stealing. Thomas Savell was the third name in the trio of Pitt-water sheep thieves, I'm yet to find any information on him so don't know the ship/s he sailed on.

I found this convict record of John Cruit, not sure if you have seen it:
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-6,358,16,L,50
A few words I can't read, I will leave as blank spaces. Hopefully someone can help to fill them in?

Cruit Jn
Calcutta 1803 Ocean
Gibraltar 1802 Life

January 13. 1807. __ __ (maybe P.M?). Absent himself from public labour 300 lashes (Rev. R.K)

Nov 16, 1807. ______ of beating Ann(?) Chapman(?) with a stick 100 lashes (Rev. R.K.)

Executed 18 September 1826
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I'm curious about the sheep stealers in Van Diemen's Land during the mid 1820s. I'm not sure if there might have been large group of bushrangers and convicts involved in a well-organised sheep stealing business that ran almost statewide between Launceston and Hobart, and maybe the trio from Pitt-water were involved? Or were there more separated and localised groups of sheep thieves that acted independantly of one another?

Nick
 
Well done Nick,
N1CK06 said:
I found this convict record of John Cruit, not sure if you have seen it:
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-6,358,16,L,50
Click to expand...

I don't know how you found that conduct report. I have finally located the link and it is in the spelling of Crute. The corresponding Calcutta record for John Davis has no link! As you are currently in Tasmania could you get the archives to show it to you, photograph it and post an image? This is really good.
N1CK06 said:
A few words I can't read, I will leave as blank spaces. Hopefully someone can help to fill them in?
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I agree with Jan that the first word on that line was an abbreviation for 'Assaulting' with the 'ass' written as 'afs'.
The 'P.W.' stands for public works.
Down the side of the report the S.C. stands for supreme court. It looks like two trials. One on 20 June 1826 where the sentence was 'Quashed [?]' and the one two days later where the sentence was death.
Reverend Robert Knopwood sentenced John to the two bouts of (OMG) a total of 400 lashes!!!

N1CK06 said:
I'm curious about the sheep stealers in Van Diemen's Land during the mid 1820s. I'm not sure if there might have been large group of bushrangers and convicts involved in a well-organised sheep stealing business that ran almost statewide between Launceston and Hobart, and maybe the trio from Pitt-water were involved? Or were there more separated and localised groups of sheep thieves that acted independantly of one another? Nick
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I have read (I think in Geoffrey Blaney's the "Tyranny of Distance") that the increase in executions in VDL at this time was because the new governor George Arthur decided to come down heavily on all sorts of crime. Bushranging was rife and there was no export industry so the theft of sheep was severely punished as it hampered the development of the export of wool and therefore hampered VDL's (and then England's) economy. England was not taking kindly to continually sending full ships and getting empty ships returning. Our bloke, whoever he was was plain unlucky. Earlier under the governorship of Collins he would have been let off. Probably with a flogging.

Thanks for finding Crute. I didn't find him and didn't look again. I do like the new index that is now in use.
Jane
 
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