Unmuddying the water ... If only

[spison]

Thomas Savell was the third name in the trio of Pitt-water sheep thieves.

According to the newspapers Thomas Saville aka Savell was associated sheep thefts with a man named Patrick Brown. The accessory in the Davis and Cruet case was named John Lawler and he was sentenced to 14 years transportation rather than death. He looks a real crim! How did he get off! He was probably the one who led our John astray! I suppose the 14 years transportation was to somewhere in VDL as his conduct report continues through to his free certificate in 1840.
Here is his report.
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-27,224,60,L,39

All this is strongly suggesting that something would have been recorded on a conduct report for John Davis but it is not available online. (See the former posts where all the available reports found have been allocated to men.)
Jane

 

[N1CK06]

Colonial Times and Tasmanian Advertiser - 23 June 1826

Davis and Cruse, for stealing sheep, the property of D. Lord, Esq. were yesterday found guilty ; also Robert Lawler, for receiving the same, knowing them to be stolen.John Everett, charged also with receiving them, was acquitted.

Hobart Town Gazette - 1 July 1826:

John Davis and John Cruit were foundguilty of stealing twenty sheep from the flocks of Mr. David Lord at the Coal River ; and John Lawler of being accessary to the same. Davis lived about five miles from Mr. Lord's sheep farm, at the Coal River

Then in the Colonial Times and Tasmanian Advertiser - 22 September 1826:

John Cruett, John Davis and Thomas Savell were all notorious characters, who hadlong infested the Settlement of Pitt Water.Their crime was that of sheep-stealing (being convicted of stealing sheep, the property of Mr. David Lord)—one of the most ruinous offences in the Colony;

It seems by the additional names mentioned there were more than 3 men who knew about or were involved with the theft of sheep in Pitt-water. Those names being: John Davis, John Cruit, Robert Lawler, John Lawler, John Everett and Thomas Savell.

Very possible John Lawler and Robert Lawler are related as it is reported that Robert L. received the same sheep (belonging to Mr. D. Lord) that John L. assisted in stealing with Davis and Cruit.

 

[N1CK06]

Very interesting couple of articles about notorious bush-rangers Brady and McCabe (who sheep-stealer and servant Robert Cable was involved with):

Hobart Town Gazette - 8 July 1825

Brady and McCabe made their appearance during the week, at the farm of A.F. KEMP, Esq. up the country. They had previously been robbing some individual; and it is supposed are harboured by a woman named Davis, who lives in the interior.

Colonial Times and Tasmanian Advertiser - 6 January 1826

This morning, immediately before the Execution, the Rev. Mr Conolly communicated to the High Sheriff, that McCabe wished to speak to him. Mr. Fereday went to him instantly. He stated, that it having been reported that Brady and himself had been harboured by a Mrs. Davis, near the Black Marsh, he declared, as a dying man, that such a report was absolutely false. He had never seen Mrs. Davis in his whole life

After reading "Mrs. Davis" I got a little excited and thought maybe this is a connection with our John and Mary? More research led me to this interesting page http://www.femaleconvicts.org.au/docs/convicts/HarriotDavis.pdf which says Mrs. Davis is Harriot Davis (nee. Neat/Neal) who married a William Davis.

William Davis was a "former convict who had been tried in 1807 and transported to Port Jackson, New South Wales aboard the Admiral Gambier. He was subsequently sent to VDL per Union and arrived on 1 January 1810.

William Davis & John Davis, (brothers),Ralph Churton, and Joseph Martin werearraigned at the bar, on a charge of stealing,on the 26th of February last, 106 sheep, the property of John Cassidy, a settler at the Old Beach."


So William had a brother John Davis who was involved in sheep stealing! Hmmm! Same John Davis or not?!

I'm still not convinced this is our John Davis, it could be a coincidence that two John Davis were in the state who were both stealing sheep. There were over 100 sheep stealers which were caught in the 1820s in VDL.

While William Davis was sentenced to death for his crime, his brother John was not:
Hobart Town Gazette - 8 March 1823

John McLachlan, John Davis, and William Drury (the three prisoners, who were the preceding day acquitted on a charge of aiding and a assisting Eldridge & Woodward in stealing Mr. Ritchie's bullocks), were indicted for killing a bullock, on the 30th of Nobember, 1821, the property of Wm. Saltmarsh. - Another information charged the prisoners with killing, with intent to steal the carcases, 6 head pf cattle, on the 30th March 1822, the property of Mr. Thomas Ritchie.

Upon the evidence however adduced, the prisoners were afterwards acquitted.

It goes on to list the sentence of death for a group of men including Eldridge, Woodward and William Davis. However, John Davis was sentenced to be "transported to such part of the Territory as His Excellency the Governor in Chief may direct: for LIFE John Davis and Samuel Lancaster, for sheep stealing".
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/art...-12-31|||dateFrom=1823-01-01|||sortby=dateAsc

 

[spison]

Thanks for that Nick. Even though I corrected the articles I had not tagged the first one you mention. I have done so now. I hadn't realized that there were two Lawlers reported however, I'm wondering if Robert and John Lawlor/Lawler were the same man as there is no entry in the Names Index for a Robert Lawlor.

Yes Savell was part of the Pitt Water group but it is interesting to note that his Supreme Court trial was nearly a week after that of Davis, Cruet and Lawlor so it seems to have been for a different crime albeit in the same location.

Jane

 

[spison]

Very interesting couple of articles about notorious bush-rangers Brady and McCabe (who sheep-stealer and servant Robert Cable was involved with):

Hobart Town Gazette - 8 July 1825


Colonial Times and Tasmanian Advertiser - 6 January 1826


After reading "Mrs. Davis" I got a little excited and thought maybe this is a connection with our John and Mary? More research led me to this interesting page http://www.femaleconvicts.org.au/docs/convicts/HarriotDavis.pdf which says Mrs. Davis is Harriot Davis (nee. Neat/Neal) who married a William Davis.

William Davis was a "former convict who had been tried in 1807 and transported to Port Jackson, New South Wales aboard the Admiral Gambier. He was subsequently sent to VDL per Union and arrived on 1 January 1810.

William Davis & John Davis, (brothers),Ralph Churton, and Joseph Martin werearraigned at the bar, on a charge of stealing,on the 26th of February last, 106 sheep, the property of John Cassidy, a settler at the Old Beach."


So William had a brother John Davis who was involved in sheep stealing! Hmmm! Same John Davis or not?!

I'm still not convinced this is our John Davis, it could be a coincidence that two John Davis were in the state who were both stealing sheep. There were over 100 sheep stealers which were caught in the 1820s in VDL.

While William Davis was sentenced to death for his crime, his brother John was not:
Hobart Town Gazette - 8 March 1823

It goes on to list the sentence of death for a group of men including Eldridge, Woodward and William Davis. However, John Davis was sentenced to be "transported to such part of the Territory as His Excellency the Governor in Chief may direct: for LIFE John Davis and Samuel Lancaster, for sheep stealing".
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1089862?searchTerm=sheep stealing davis&searchLimits=l-state=Tasmania|||dateTo=1823-12-31|||dateFrom=1823-01-01|||sortby=dateAsc

I corrected and tagged those articles as 'John Davis' but had stopped looking at this man as I'm pretty sure that the Davis brothers were not our Davis. If you dig you'll find that William was severely wounded during their capture and was nursed back to health so that he could be executed. And if John Davis was transported for Life in 1823 then he would not have been around to be having children and living near Lord as his sentence would still have him wherever he was sent. That William Davis was the same man who was running with Alexander Pearce. I stopped looking at those men a while back and I have now changed the tags to 'John Davis unlikely'.

I also spotted the Mrs Davis but had eliminated her for the same reasons. That's why there is no tag of Mary Davis nee Brown. It's good that ot is recorded here so nobody chases the same dead ends.
Jane

 

[spison]

A John Everitt also seems to have come on the Calcutta. O wonder if it is the same man? His conduct report is also not available.

Perhaps now Tasmania has the new names index they are scanning more and are currently only up to 'C' and have not yet done 'D' (Davis) and 'E' (Everett). Perhaps this was why I was unable to locate John Crute's conduct report when I first compiled this thread.

This is what I said in post #4 in November 2013.

Of the other men executed with John DAVIS on 18 September 1826, only two have a conduct reports
George FARQUHARSON: This man had arrived free. His conduct report – probably for a Colonial Sentence – is not available online but the online index indicates that he was tried May 1825 and executed
Thomas SAVILLE: Conduct report clearly indicates that he was executed on 18 September 1826
Robert GRANT: (per Dromedary) – notation “Executed” on Conduct Report – no date
John CRUITT or CRUTE or CRUSE: No reference or conduct report found
Robert CABLE: No reference or conduct report found
Patrick BROWN: (prob. per Chapman – Hobart Town Gazette etc 18 May 1822.) No conduct report found
James ROWLES: (prob. per Lord Melville) No conduct report located and only one man from the Lord Melville appears in the book.

The earlier the arrival in VDL (and the Calcutta was the first transport) the less likely the report was to have been written so they were possibly completed only as the need arose. Maybe if we wait long enough all these missing reports will be scanned and our problem will be solved.

What do you think are our chances? A trip to the Tasmanian Archives might hurry them along but if 'C' is done then one would hope that 'D' is next!

Jane

 

[spison]

Here is John Everitt's conduct report. He was John Everet alias John Palmer. There is no ship mentioned on the report but this was the man accused of receiving the property. The index has him arriving on the Almorah to NSW and the Pilot to VDL. Unfortunately the image has cut off the date in June 1826 when he was tried and acquitted. I suspect that it would read 20 June.
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-9,290,207,F,60
Another John Everett was executed a year earlier (on 31 August 1825) for bushranging and robbery. I have not found a conduct report recording this execution which is irrelevant to our search but does indicate another conduct reports that is missing from the online Tasmanian records.

Jane

 

[N1CK06]

Ah, good to know you have already looked into William Davis and "Mrs. Davis". Yes the life sentence of William's brother John in 1823 does make it seem pretty much impossible for him to be our John; as he was having children with his wife Mary in the years before and after 1823.

I was reading about Alexander Pearce and he sounds like one messed up character! So I guess it's a good thing our John Davis was not associated with him; or he may have ended up on Pearce's dinner plate

Regards the names index. I can only remember finding John Cruit's report looking manually through the pages. I am yet to find our John Davis' report, but I believe you can view all of the reports online listed in books of surnames A-Z. http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/default.aspx?detail=1&type=S&id=CON31

 

[spison]

Thanks Nick,
I didn't do that but once you'd found his report I then re-searched by name and there is a link (as CRUTE).
I think I shall now begin a very slow browse through the books. Lovely! Short on time tonight. It may become a race as I think that you may try the same thing. Good luck. Together we may uncover him but I note from the ship index (Image 7) of the D to E book that the Calcutta is not listed at all. I think that I did this when I matched the men named John Davis so here I go again.
Jane

 

[N1CK06]

Yeah, unlike the "C" book where Cruit is listed, it seems the records for "D" do not go as far back, the earlist record I've seen are from after 1810.

 

[spison]

Another update: In Post #2 I said:

3. No. 8144: Brown, Mary; arrived VDL on 7 Feb 1816 per Emu - To NSW per Francis & Eliza
Mary was 24 in 1815 (b.1891). Her conduct report shows that there were incidents in 1817, 1818 and 1819 and then nothing until 16 January 1826 ... What happened on 16 January 1826?

I have been trying to find out!
Here is a copy of the actual conduct report of the Mary Brown who I believe to be my husband's ancestor. Courtesy of the Tasmanian Archives (and available online):

I believe that the very last entry reads:
January 16 1826 Free by Servitude; suspected of a felony. Committed or committal [?] for Criminal Court (John Pedder, Esq)

I have scoured Trove during 1826 with innumerable searches of various names and words but I cannot find any reference to any trial of this woman for any felony. I am uncertain of one abbreviation in the final entry and that is 'Com ?'. To me it looks like it was uncertain that a trial was to occur but I am uncertain of this.

This must have been a serious felony as I believe that it was highly unusual that the Chief Justice of Van Diemen's Land (Sir John Lewes Pedder) rather than a magistrate would be making decisions about a convict woman who had behaved well for nearly seven years and who had only previously been charged with being drunk and disorderly. While I have been unable to find a trial for Mary - and one may never have occurred - I believe that, together with other circumstantial evidence outlined in earlier posts, this decision by such a high-ranking member of the Government confirms that this woman was the wife of John Davis.

This may be as good as it gets!

Jane

 

[spison]

Sigh! Just for the record ...
I checked Historical Records of Australia (Volume III - Correspondence relating to the formation of the States - or some such) for letters from John Pedder between 1825 and 1827 and names in the index too. I got quite excited as there was a very long one written on 17 January 1826, to either the Tasmanian or the NSW governor - can't remember which. Sadly this letter had nothing to do with any decisions relating to Mary Brown, Mary Davis or John Davis. The only place I will find any more of Pedder's correspondence will be in Tasmania. Terrific!

Chipping away ... very slowly

Jane

 

[Sis]

@TomG Force3 have a fourteen day free trial.

 

[spison]

If it is possible could I please prevail upon some kind moderator to create a new thread about Thomas Newton John BUCKLEY and Alice SOMERS aka SMITH so all the information about John DAVIS and Mary BROWN is together?

Thanks

Jane

 

[Doug]

Done. Can be found here.

 

[Murfomurf]

..Kable took the role of ships' husband, employing crews, provisioning voyages...

Tasmania seems to have some history of Kable, Underwood and sealing:
http://www.utas.edu.au/library/companion_to_tasmanian_history/S/Sealing.htm
Murf (Kable descendant)

 

[Findem]

He had researched a totally different family.

From what I have seen and experienced one needs to be wary of Professional Researchers, some are evidently not as professional, experienced (or careful) as they make out to be.

Some years ago I commissioned a researcher to check the PRs of Nun Monkton Yorkshire to among other things look for the marriage and Baptism (c1708ish) of my ancestor Oswald Sturdy. The researcher couldn't find the marriage which is fair enough because I later found it at Tadcaster Yorkshire. What took me aback was that the researcher then suggested a search for the baptism at Nun Monkton of an Oswald with the surname of Gardener, that suggestion was based on the burial details of Oswald where he was stated to be a Gardener.

As it was the Researcher had charged me quite a bit for what she did and all I got out of it was confirmation of the four children's baptisms which I already knew of from Family Search and two burials that I didn't know of. The researcher didn't find or tell me of two children baptised at Nun Monkton of a Thomas Sturdy in 1691 and 1696, which at the time left me wondering did she go far enough back looking for Oswald.

Obviously there are no doubt professional researchers out there doing competent and conscientious research but unless they come with genuine recommendation caution is required.

 

[Steve Davis]

Hi All, I am rather new to this all and like you trying to track a John (Thomas) Davis who I believe was married to a Mary Ann, or Maryann, I didn't have a maiden name, so it may be Mary Brown?. Who I believe to be one of their children, William John 1852-1890 may be my 2nd Great Grandfather, who at least came to NZ. I have some references that sort of tie in with some of what is in this thread, but the executed bit does not seem to link I found a John Thomas Davis and a John Anderson were in court for forgery in 1826 in Launcester. And I found that a John Thomas Davis, Mary Ann Davis and three children traveled from Launcester to Adelaide in Feb 1846. I still haven't linked them to New Zealand yet ... So very interested in some of the comments in this thread, and to see if any of this does tie together.

Steve