My 3x Gr Grandmother, Elizabeth Wilshire who married William King

AnnB said:
Having tried the papers, I found the following -
Police Gazette 19th February 1773
STOLEN, on Tuesday Night, the 15th Instant, out of the Stables of Daniel Wilshin, of Headstone, near Pinner, in Middlesex, a Black Mare, fifteen Hands high, a small Star in her Forehead, a Speck in the near Eye, a switch Tail, some Hair of which is rubbed off, full aged, and has been hurt in her Bearing, by having a Foal. Whoever will give Information where the said Mare may be found to Daniel Wilshin, aforesaid, shall receive Two Guineas Reward; or if offered to be disposed of, stop Her and the Party, and give Notice to Sir John Fielding, and you shall receive the same Reward from the Owner.
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This is amazing! I really feel that this is likely to bet the family!....this is fun!....Thanks, all of you!...
 
Everyone else has been doing well with other parts of the question, so I thought I'd just pick up on this point:
George Cooke said:
I found William and Elizabeth King in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census records and I have their death records in the National Wills records. I do not have their death certificates as finding them isn't easy though I believe his is probably Q2 1861, Pancras, London, Vol 1b, Page 75. I will apply for it. But I still can't find the death record for her!.....
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Please could you let us have the details from the Probate Index? And are you sure that the ones you have found there are yours?

The Probate Index usually gives a precise date and place of death, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get from that to entries in the GRO death indexes, particularly since the GRO's online index now gives the age at death. But names like William and Elizabeth King are going to be quite common, so the more clues we have the better.

In case you haven't used the GRO's own index, it's showing that the William King you mention was recorded as aged 64 when he died, whereas the other evidence you give suggests he would have been around 76-77 in 1861.
 
AnnB said:
There are quite a few mentions of various Wilshins from Pinner in the papers, but nothing that would help with Elizabeth.

On Ancestry, I have found a baptism of an Elizabeth Wilshin on November 5th 1794 at St Leonard's Heston, daughter of John and Sophia. Heston is about 10 miles from Pinner.
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Interesting.....but then the dates would be a bit askew......still looking!!....Thanks!
 
MollyMay said:
Well, looky here:-

From FMP Faculty Office Marriage Licences Transcription set

14th July 1825 a William King marries an Elizabeth Wilshin
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This is very interesting....but it would mean that either the first 2 children were illegitimate, which knowing this family I doubt, OR there was a prior wife!....I wonder if this license would give the names of William's parents? If they were Thomas and Sarah King, we probably have the right one! Wow....this is amazing!....
 
arthurk said:
Everyone else has been doing well with other parts of the question, so I thought I'd just pick up on this point:

Please could you let us have the details from the Probate Index? And are you sure that the ones you have found there are yours?

The Probate Index usually gives a precise date and place of death, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get from that to entries in the GRO death indexes, particularly since the GRO's online index now gives the age at death. But names like William and Elizabeth King are going to be quite common, so the more clues we have the better.

In case you haven't used the GRO's own index, it's showing that the William King you mention was recorded as aged 64 when he died, whereas the other evidence you give suggests he would have been around 76-77 in 1861.
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Hi, Arthur.....What I know is that William King died on April 26th, 1861 aged 76 at his home, 16, Sussex Square, Nr Paddington, London and was buried at Kensal Green Cemetery. I have photos of the grave. In the England and Wales National Probate calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations) there is a fairly detailed entry:

Screen Shot 2017-10-30 at 9.37.31 AM.png
I have found what I believe to be the death certificate record and have applied four the cert.
As for his wife, Elizabeth, again, I know that she died on August 9th, 1868 aged, I believe, 71, at 134 Westbourne Terrace, Paddington, London and is buried in the same place as her husband in Kensal Green Cemetery. However, I have not been able to find her death certificate listing in the B, M & D records.
The entry from the National Probate Calendar is:
Screen Shot 2017-10-30 at 9.39.46 AM.png
I am very confidant that these entries refer to the people in question....does this help!?....thanks, again, for your help!
 
The GRO reference number for William King's death is:
Apr-Jun 1861 Pancras, London Vol 1b Page 75 - I ordered it yesterday.....will post a photo when it arrives....
 
By the way, on her tombstone, it gives Elizabeth's age at death as 70.....so I am pretty sure she was born in 1797, but could have been 1798.....
 
Sorry to bear bad news, but I think you have the wrong death there. It's not easy knowing where registration district boundaries are in a city like London, but I think these entries may be what you're after:

William King - Jun qtr 1861 Kensington Reg Dist, 1a 29 (age 76)
Elizabeth King - Sep qtr 1868 Kensington Reg Dist, 1a 41 (age 70)

They both died in the Paddington area, so the Kensington district seems at least as likely as St Pancras - see https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/kensington.html
 
arthurk said:
Sorry to bear bad news, but I think you have the wrong death there. It's not easy knowing where registration district boundaries are in a city like London, but I think these entries may be what you're after:

William King - Jun qtr 1861 Kensington Reg Dist, 1a 29 (age 76)
Elizabeth King - Sep qtr 1868 Kensington Reg Dist, 1a 41 (age 70)

They both died in the Paddington area, so the Kensington district seems at least as likely as St Pancras - see https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/kensington.html
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Aaaaah! That would explain it!! I will apply for them today.....Thanks SO much! Hopefully her death cert will give her maiden name! Its strange.....I cannot find the reference to Elizabeth's maiden name, but I do remember that it was strange that what I thought was "Wilshire", did not have an "e" on the end....so Wilshir was almost certainly Wilshin!!....
Thanks, again! Brilliant work!!....
 
MollyMay said:
From FMP Faculty Office Marriage Licences Transcription set

14th July 1825 a William King marries an Elizabeth Wilshin
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I am sorry have do not know very much about marriage licences, but the info supplied by FMP says that the licence might contain the dates of birth, as well as names and date of the marriage (which we have).
The transcription that FMP has is from The Society of Genealogist.

Hopefully someone can suggest where you could look for the licence.
 
MollyMay said:
I am sorry have do not know very much about marriage licences, but the info supplied by FMP says that the licence might contain the dates of birth, as well as names and date of the marriage (which we have).
The transcription that FMP has is from The Society of Genealogist.

Hopefully someone can suggest where you could look for the licence.
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Thanks so much, MollyMay.....but I am NOT convinced that the marriage date is correct....I wonder if we can find out where it took place....If in Headstone, Pinner, Middx, the plot thickens!....
Best, George
 
Thanks for saving me the trouble of a screenshot, MollyMay - I'd just found that marriage too. You'll see that in spite of Ancestry's transcription and the slightly unclear writing in the entry, Elizabeth's signature is clearly Wilshin.

I don't think we've seen anything of the 3 sons yet, but the oldest daughter in 1841 was Sarah, aged 13. That just about gives time for 3 older children between this marriage and Sarah's birth.

George - was there any particular reason why you thought the marriage was a few years earlier?
 
Just had a quick look for baptisms - the first one I've found is Sarah Frances King at All Saints, Wandsworth on 15 Nov 1828 (born 12 Feb) - the image is at Ancestry. William is shown as Esqr, as in the marriage, and of Wandsworth.

One very good reason why I'm sure this is the right one is that the baptism was performed by a visiting minister - John Mitchel, Rector of St Nicholas Cole Abbey. He also performed the marriage, again as a visiting minister. Could he be a relative? Or just a friend?

Edit:
Also at Wandsworth:
Elizabeth Ann bapt 6 Mar 1830, born 16 Dec 1829
Isabella Mary bapt 15 Nov 1832, born 7 Sep 1832
 
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Looking for the boys:
The 1868 probate for Elizabeth mentions a son Charles - could he be the one baptised 2 Jun 1824 at St Marylebone (born 27 May)? - this was the parish where William and Elizabeth married the following year.
 
You've beaten me again! I was about to quote the Oxford Alumni too.

Anyway, from the Clergy Database:
John Mitchel was appointed Lecturer at Isleworth in 1810, became Curate there in 1814, and then Rector of St Nicholas Cole Abbey with St Nicholas Oliffs (Olave) in 1817.
 
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