Photo Date?

What a lovely photo. I think it dates sometime in the 1870's. Is it in England? I feel whilst not a mourning picture it was perhaps a 'semi' mourning if that makes sense.
I think the little girls dress is strange - as it is showing her chest & shoulders. As to the Language of flowers - well I think they are roses at least 2 of them. While I am no expert on the meanings I think it means unconditional love - also courage & respect. So perhaps something to do with a bereavement? what a mystery!:) I an a bit dubious about family stories - I think what started as fairly accurate could easily get changed over time a bit like Chinese Whispers. Those are my thoughts & I may easy be wrong!
 
The flowers clearly have been painted in later, because they didn't have colour photography then (and it's the only bit in colour too). If they were painted over something different, that rather reinforces the idea that they were meant to convey a particular meaning.

I'm still hoping that someone will be able to identify them - my best guesses for the large one on the right are anemone, chrysanthemum, dahlia or zinnia (in alphabetical order). Many of these seem to be associated with absence - and the colour comes into it as well.

There actually appear to be 5 different flowers there, so possibly a fairly complex message. Gillyflower has mentioned a rose; is the top one apple blossom?
Andrew Davies said:
Here is the crux though...........The family story is that the little girl is Millicent Hutchinson and she was brought up by an uncle who was the governor of a London prison. I have worked back through my tree with concrete connections from my Great Grandmother and have her in all the Census' to 1861. Millicent Hodgkinson was born in 1856 in Milford, Derbyshire. She married William Butler in 1877, her father, William died in 1888. I am at a loss as to why the picture is a mournful one. Although a lovely gift, it has asked more questions than it has answered.
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I suppose the question might be why Millicent was brought up by an uncle rather than her father. Did her father have a job which involved travel or other absence? Are her parents found together in the 1870s-1880s? (Hutchinson or Hodgkinson? - I assume one is a typo.)
 
arthurk said:
Are her parents found together in the 1870s-1880s? (Hutchinson or Hodgkinson? - I assume one is a typo.)
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No typo, Hutchinson was what the family believed her maiden name was. I eventually discovered it was Hodgkinson. I thought the two surnames pertinent to the discovery of the Prison Governor.

1871 census they are together and his profession was a "Horse dealers assistant" I would imagine quite some travelling with this role.
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 201
Piece: 731
Folio: 20
Page number: 33

1881 census there is no sign of William (Father) but Emma (Mother) gives her occupation as this:-

Anne Hodgkinson.png

It's transcribed as Horse Travellers Wife.

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 681
Folio: 51
Page number: 33
 
I think I actually meant were William and his wife found together in the 1860s-1870s, not 1870s-1880s - the earlier period would be more relevant to Millicent's childhood.

Horse traveller? - travelling was part of a horse dealer's work, see "dealer, horse" at
Code: 
http://doot.spub.co.uk/code.php?value=770

I wonder if he ever did extended trips, even abroad?
 
They were both on the 1861 census where his occupation is "Groom & Gentleman"
Registration district: Kensington
Sub-registration district: St Mary Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 215
Piece: 5
Folio: 121
Page number: 58
 
Looking at the censuses, there's a 1 year old Henry in 1861 who isn't there in 1871. I've found the following in the GRO indexes, both as Henry William Hodgkinson:
Birth - Dec qtr 1859 Stoke on Trent, mmn Bates (6b 165)
Death - Sep qtr 1862 Kensington, aged 2 (1a 4)

Bates is the mmn for all the children shown in the censuses, and Ann Bates, mother, is there in 1871 - maybe there wasn't room to write mother-in-law.

Anyway, how about the photo dating from 1862, and the sadness/possible mourning is because little Henry has died?
 
I'm going to interject another "thot." Feel free to shoot it down. Is it possible that the child was holding something that blurred in the photo, so was touched up to disguise an oops? Returning to my quiet corner now.
 
Ma-dotcom said:
The bottom end of the flowers doesn't really look like stems unless wrapped, may have been a handkerchief or a 'dolly'.
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Looks like two legs to me. I wonder why it was covered up if that's the case.
Then again on closer look, there are four of them...:confused:
 
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So I had to look again, colouring is off putting - maybe those legs are stems after all same as the kaki color on two of the flower leaves/ stems.
Wash day, away am I again.
 
Andrew, can you post the snip of the flowers so that it can be enlarged?
I think that Arthur is correct in detecting a message there. We just need someone who can read it!
I'm no good with flowers (Dandelion & Bluebell are about my limit!).
One of those in the pic looks like a catapult to me :eek: but I think there's a Daisy and that's usually for "Innocence".
So perhaps Arthur's on the correct track (he often is!) with the death of a child.

I learn something new every day with Top Dog. Did you know that:
- a PINK Carnation means "I will never forget you"
- a RED Carnation means "Yes!"
- a YELLOW Carnation means "No!"
- a STRIPED Carnation means "Maybe!"

Source: http://www. languageofflowers. com/flowermeaning.htm#anchora
(I hope the link is broken - the site is probably commercial)

Jane
 
Do you think we are placing too much emphasis on the flowers? I have an old photo and certain bits of it were coloured - by hand. Perhaps as GrannyBarb said the hands were blurred and were painted over? :)
 
I am not convinced that the flowers have any significance either, other than being a ‘prop’. The lady is holding a book, another ‘prop’, probably supplied by the photographer. Is there a photographer’s name anywhere on the photo?
 
AnnB said:
I am not convinced that the flowers have any significance either, other than being a ‘prop’.
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My thoughts too Ann, it never occurred to me that there would be a message conveyed by the flowers, having seen some photos of that era and later times I noticed that most if not all photographers had their Pros and that's what I thought the the flowers and book were. Might well be wrong though!
 
AnnB said:
I am not convinced that the flowers have any significance either, other than being a ‘prop’. The lady is holding a book, another ‘prop’, probably supplied by the photographer. Is there a photographer’s name anywhere on the photo?
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Given that there was an established language of flowers, and the flowers here have been hand-coloured to make them the most prominent feature of the image, I find it hard to believe that they are just there by chance. I suspect the book may have some hidden meaning too...
 
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