1870 adoptions?

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by eric kingsley, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Agnes and some of the children are on the 1891 census no Edward (he must have been in Bournmouth) in Hackney RG12/183/109/30 all with initials instead of first names.
    W E (William Edward) is a Public House Manager
    and E (Edith) is listed as an actress, there is an L Delphine (visitor) who is also an actress.
    So another connection to the world of entertainment
     
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  2. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    Miss L. Delphine gets a lot of mentions in the newspapers of the time, appearing in various parts in the London Theatres and around the country. I have no idea what the ‘L’ stands for. In one part, that of Tilly Vane, a servant, in a play entitled ‘A Girl’s Cross Roads’, her performance was described as ‘vivacious and natural’ Doesn’t help at all I know, but I had to look :reading::D
     
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  3. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Adictive isn't it?:D
     
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  4. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    You said it :D
     
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  5. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    I notice that Pablo Fanque's memorial stone notes that it was his
    'stage name'. I wonder if Abney Park Cemetary has a memorial
    there for Edward similarly giving his 'stage name'. It looks to be
    an interesting place to visit anyway. If they had a list of who was
    buried where it would be very helpful!
     
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  6. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    They do. ;)

    According to this website (do a basic search) he is in grave 63270 - if I have the right chap...

    Crichton, Edward Barnes (aged 63)
    of 40 Parkholm Road, Dalston, N
    1828 - 1891 (buried 30/06/1891)

    Code:
    http://www.devsys.co.uk/ap/Basic_Search.asp
     
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  7. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    He was in Christchurch with Harriett and Georgiana, a retired publican
    RG12/903/129/14 (FMP have his surname as Crickson)
    Enumerated as visitors - it looks like boarding house
     
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  8. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Loose ends...

    The Pub
    I managed to visit the pub when it was fairly quiet. The ground floor bar is original, as it was in 1850 I'd say when the place was possibly built. The bar is central with spaces around it for tables and drinkers, however there is a 1st floor function room where they still have music occasionally, this is a large open space. There was one photo of a horse drawn dray on the wall delivering beer to the pub dated 1883. I thought Edward had gone by then but looking carefully at Pubwiki I can see this is not necessarily the case. He might have been there in 1883, looking out of the window. Spooky eh? There were people sitting directly under the picture and I couldn't scrutinise it, I'll have to go back. I wonder who the cameraman was? The idea that he might have still been there in 1883 is supported by an article from the Sporting Life, 13th January 1885 that another helpful person sent me regarding the "Parkholme Musical Club" which met in the pub, presumably in the function room. The description of this "smoking concert" is very detailed. About half way down it says "Mr E. B. Crichton concluded the first part by singing "What will you do, love?" The name of the company that owns the pub and the landlord's email address were publicly displayed so I emailed him and asked him to have a look at this thread. The lyrics to this old song are available on line. As far as I can see it is long out of copyright. Here's the first verse -

    What will you do, love, when I am going,
    With white sails flowing, the seas beyond?
    What will you do, love, when waves divide us,
    And friends may chide us for being fond?
    Tho' waves divide us, and friends be chiding,
    In faith abiding, I'll still be true;
    And I'll pray for thee on the stormy ocean,
    With deep devotion-that's what I'll do.

    Very moving. That's what I call a love song. Maybe he was thinking about his own past travels.

    Books
    "A History Of The Circus" by George Speaight is not available as an ebook and I'd have to buy it as a hardback. There's no point in this case because judging from the look of it and the blurb it deals with historical and cultural issues, tracing the development of the circus in some detail over the ages. I don't think it would mention a contortionist/publican from Hackney.

    Grave
    The idea of looking at his grave is a good one. Fanque seems to have been a big deal in the Victorian circus world and if Edward Crichton was Edwin Edwards he seems to have been a bit player, I don't know that his "Clown" years would be remembered in this way, but you never know. Abney Park Cemetery, Stoke Newington isn't too far so I'll go and look.
     
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  9. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I don’t know about you but to me Edwin seems to be overseas when Edward is, and back in Britain at around the same times as Edward :sceptical:
     
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  10. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm... from the Abney Park web site -

    "...As a charity we do ask for a £25 fee for a single grave search to help cover our costs (printing, staff time etc), and to maintain this service. The fee does reduce for more than one search. Even with a plot number, graves can be very difficult to find. The ground around the graves is often uneven and overgrown so can be unsafe, with low visibility. Because of this we recommend that you are accompanied by someone from the Abney Park Trust team when looking for a grave..."

    I followed Daft Bat's instructions on locating Edward's grave and it took me eventually to this touching thumbnail of a family grave. I'm assuming this is all the inscription that the grave has on it. No mention of Edward's clowning days.

    gravestone.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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  11. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    Clicking on K07 gives the the section on a map where the grave is to be
    found. It does not appear difficult to locate. To me what is on the thumbnail
    is a strange way to put information on a stone. I rather think it is a written
    record of all the several persons that were buried in that one grave.
     
  12. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I got to the map. The cemetery is HUGE so that rectangle is going to be correspondingly daunting. The visitor centre is open tomorrow (the 27th) from 2 till 4 so I think I'll print out the thumbnail and ask them if there's likely to be anything else inscribed on the headstone. If they say yes I'll have a quick look at K07. The sun sets at 4 so I'll need to get there at 2 really.
     
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  13. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I found the grave but no luck I'm afraid. It makes no references to Edward's early career as clown/contortionist/dog-performer. Thinking about it, it would be difficult to say something respectful and dignified about his earlier occupation. Even the most skilled undertaker would have found it hard to give Victorian gravitas to his line of work I imagine.

    The cemetery is extremely dilapidated and I think it is being allowed to slowly vanish under the vegetation, although the main footpaths/gates are maintained. I would never have found the grave without the assistance of the visitor centre. A helpful worker gave me a copy of an A3 plot map which had the specific grave marked but even so it was very difficult to locate. There is a carpet of ivy, ferns, holly and nettles and shrubs (elder possibly) over and around everything. Many headstones and monuments have fallen over or are at crazy angles, there are also collapsed graves.

    The graves are packed together as this was a commercial cemetery, not much more than 6 inches or a foot between the graves. His was 4 rows in from the main path so I had to squeeze through gaps and fight off small birch trees. Steady drizzle made me reluctant to get my camera out but I had a go. It only has a pop-up flash and I didn't have a tripod. If any of the shots come out I will post them.

    It was extremely difficult to read the headstone. I had to rip branches off an 8 foot bush that had grown IN the grave. The surface of the stone was eroded and covered in what I think might have been "powdery mildew", however, I got to within 12 inches and could not see the words Edwin Edwards, clown, back-flip, dog-tricks or even "He made people laugh". It was all very austere and proper. In fact it didn't say much more than the words on the thumbnail I posted earlier, there were a few "beloved husband of" but that was it. The headstone is not large and there are a lot of people buried there so there was very little empty space. Still, it was worth a look.
     
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  14. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    Ah, well! It was worth a try. Apparently they have been allotted money
    to tidy and maintain it.
     
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  15. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    You can rent out the cemetery to make scary sequences in films. I can see why. Some of the photos are OK. I'll post them later today.
     
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  16. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I think the names are written in exactly the same order that they appear on the thumbnail posted earlier. Louise is described as wife of Walter Westbrook and daughter of Edward.
     

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  17. annabel

    annabel Puts the Heart into Hertfordshire

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    Just a little aside – I have Barns and Barnes in my family tree around those sort of times. They are all closely related and the two ways of spelling could be interchangeable. Several times around this time period there would be siblings where one always used one spelling and another always used the other, and they passed down that spelling to their individual descendents. Or someone changed the spelling half way through their life. It makes putting them into families interesting
     
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  18. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I've completely run out of ideas now. I have to confess I was a bit dismayed to contemplate that Louise, my barber's great-great-grandmother, only lived 4 years longer than her dad. A reminder to have a bit of fun while you can I suppose.

    On a lighter note, I have been playing with Google Advanced Search and came across a reference to Edwin Edwards that had me in stitches. At one point he played a monkey, but not just any monkey, a monkey that was both brave and good. It's in a book, and I'm not kidding, called "The Rise of the Monkey Tribe Simian Impersonation in British Theatre" by Bernard Ince.
    Code:
    https://www.academia.edu/35978762/Rise_of_the_Monkey_Tribe_Simian_Impersonation_in_the_British_Theatre
    Ince writes about the history of theatre from his particular perspective which I read as post-modern, anti-colonial, anti-imperialist etc etc. You have to register to read the paragraph but it's free and all that is needed is an email address. Edwin Edwards played the role at the Queen's Theatre, Dublin in 1852, the same year that Edward Barnes Crichton married.

    By checking newspaper adverts I've concluded that Edwin Edwards/Edward Barnes Crichton was in the UK until at least 13/02/1853 and returned from the Continent no later than 17/11/1863. He made a flying return vist in this period when, I believe, he got news of his dad's death (possibly relayed partly by the new telegraph) when he was also baptised, 30/11/1855. Did anyone find a date for his father's death? I could not.

    Edwin Edwards is one of about 18 monkey impersonators listed. Go to page 358 and start at the paragraph that begins "Perouse; or, the Desolate Island" up to "Philip Quarll; or, The English Hermit". Very amusing.

    On the question of performers' real names, it is often the case, even today, that people don't know or enquire about the real name of even a celebrated performers. Take Helen Mirren, how many people know her "real" name is Mironoff?
     
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  19. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    I think it is possible that Edward's mother Sarah Elizabeth Creighton married a Charles Elphick in Shoreditch in 1848. If so it is likely that John died before that date (unless she bigamously remarried).
     
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  20. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes. I see it. So bang goes my theory that he came back because of his dad's demise. So I should be able to find Sarah Elizabeth and Charles Elphick in the 1851 census with no sign at of John Creighton. I'll have a look. It looks like he was alive in '41 (census) but dead by '48. I wonder why Edward came back to the UK?

    On another lighter note I got a reply from the manager of the Prince George who said our research was interesting and that he'd have a look at the thread and that he'd tell the owner about it. He extended his thanks to everyone, it has been a joint effort as far as I'm concerned.
     
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