1870 adoptions?

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by eric kingsley, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    It might be worth investigating the 'clowns museum' at Trinity Church,
    Dalston, where they hold an annual service for circus folk in February.
     
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  2. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    I love this which appears in several of the adverts for performances by Edwin
    "Mr Edwin Edwards will give his Calisthenic Exercises.....
    To conclude with the Ballet of La Perouse
    *Chimpanzee, The Man Monkey, Mr Edwin Edwards"


    [*with apologies to anyone who might recognise themselves from this description :rolleyes::D]
     
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  3. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Grizel I just noticed that from your post about his period in prison John Creighton must have been alive in 1842 and probably dead by 1848. His wife describes herself as a widow at her second marriage, I guess she could have been lying. Dramatic I know, but maybe he killed himself.
     
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  4. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    That's what's wrong with modern theatre, not enough plays with monkeys. He played an orangutan in 1852, I wonder if he extended his repertoire later. I'd enjoy a play with a gibbon personally, or a macaque, they're good.
     
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  5. Chimp

    Chimp Moderator & Cheeky Human IMP Staff Member

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    :D good to get a mention :)
     
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  6. AnnB

    AnnB Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!

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    :D:cool:
     
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  7. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    According to their website the museum is open on the 1st Friday of every month so I will attempt to visit on Friday 6th December
     
  8. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    1st photo, my early morning eyes saw a giant boot behind the black grave stone :eek:- a few blinks later saw it as a tangle of vines. :rolleyes:
     
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  9. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    It might be worth e-mailing them as I saw one report of everything being boxed
    and looking for a new venue. Could ask them whether they have anything on
    Edwin Edwards anyway. E-mails on the sites for Trinity and Wookey Hole.
     
  10. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    There is a tree on Anc which gives his date of death as 18/3/1848 at St Bartholomews Hospital and a burial at St Luke Finsbury on 26/3/1848 - John Crichton age 48 of King(?) Street
    There is this GRO corresponding entry
    upload_2019-11-28_20-51-34.png

    Sarah Elizabeth did not remarry until the 24th December of 1848, so a possible.
     
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  11. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Very helpful. Thanks for that.

    I don't believe the GRO age at death. If he knew his own age and reported it accurately in the 1841 census then as Daft Bat pointed out it was rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5, 35 in his case, giving his age as 35 to 39 and year of birth as 1802-1806. So in 1848 he would have been 42-46. A lot of tentative arithmetic here, but he must have been a specific number of years old. I'd seen the John Crichton "West London" death on GRO but decided that individual was too old. Your reference to the Anc tree has persuaded me otherwise.
    Good idea. I've emailed the secretary.
     
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  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    I’ve been thinking (ahead of myself) about the lady by the name of L Delphine on the 1891 census. She states she is born c1866 in London. I can’t find anything at the moment about her also can’t find the post mentioning her but Georgiana’s full name is Delia Georgiana Lenton Crichton. Although the ages are out what if Georgiana was this L Delphine?
    Georgiana married a dentist in 1903 but had two children to him by 1899. I think he may been married to someone else. :rolleyes:
     
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  13. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    If his date of birth given at the baptism at Brancaster, Norfolk, of the
    3rd February 1801 is his, and I think it is, he would be 47 and 15 days
    at death.
     
  14. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    You may well be right, and I don't suppose it's crucial, but that does mean that he didn't know his own age. The 1841 census was carried out on 06/06 so he would have been 40 and a few months. His age would have been recorded as 40 by the census taker if he had reported it accurately. It seems strange to me. Maybe it was the norm. I have no idea.
     
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    No, false alarm. I found Georgiana Age 18 as Crickson on 1891 in Hampshire with the family..
     
  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Family Search has an original of the Register. John Edward Cryton son of John Cryton and Elizabeth late Barnes, spinster born 3 Feb 1800 and baptised 13 Feb 1800 Brancaster Norfolk
    There is a marriage on FS of John Crichton and Elizabeth Barnes 25th September 1799 St Luke Old Finsbury but I think we already have that marriage.
     
  17. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the local Hackney paper would be interested in the Edwards/Crichton story? It is of "local interest". I'd say we had circumstantial evidence that "Edwin Edwards" was Crichton's stage name but it's not overwhelming yet. It's a good working hypothesis. A couple of things nag at me. Why did Edward come back to the UK in 1855 when he was baptised? His Dad was already dead and his Mum was already remarried and his first child had already been born in Breslau. There's no sign of a birth or baptism certificate for Louise from Breslau. Maybe he had her baptised in the UK and had himself "done" at the same time. Just a thought.

    Maybe he came back for a holiday? Perhaps circus activities were on hold until the Crimean War ended and they could go to perform in St Petersburg? Maybe he had to find a new contract?

    The return to the UK also makes a hole in extended period of time he was on the Continent. The clip AnnB found from the Morning Post 02/12/1863 says Edward was a clown "...who during an absence from England of 12 years' duration has acquired considerable reputation on the Continent..." Looking at advert frequency for Edwards I can only find a gap from 13/02/1853 to 17/11/1863 which is 10yrs 9 mnths. Maybe Edwards was just exaggerating the time he'd spent out of the country. But the return in 1855 makes a hole in this time abroad reducing it further. It could be that he added up the periods he'd been out of the country and got 12 years, that it was not a continuous absence if you see what I mean. There could have been 3 periods -
    (1) before he married Agnes(pure speculation)
    (2) from 13/02/1853 to his baptism visit in 1855
    (3) post-baptism 1855 to recommencement of advertising 17/11/1863

    I'm just making this up as I go along really. I'd appreciate your opinions. We may not be the first people to think about the Edwards/Crichton link, there are plenty of local historians in Hackney and the Victorian music hall/circus era is a lively area of study.
     
  18. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't see any signs of Louise being baptised in the UK in 1855.
     
  19. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    I think the reason for Edward's return and bap could have been the death of his brother George.
    George was bap 17/7/1825 St Mary Lambeth
    He is with the family in 1841
    George married Sarah Elizabeth Roe in 1848 (image on Anc - father's occ Carpenter)
    1851 census in Brick Lane HO107/1521/324/25 (Craighton on both FMP & Anc- and born Berkshire Maidenhead, as was his wife)
    Rosa Creighton was born 1851, bap 19/10/1857 St James Clerkenwell and is with the widowed Sarah Elphick in 1861
    George died in 1855 and was buried 23/12/1855 St John Hoxton (image on Anc)- his address Allerton Rd
    Sarah Elphick (Creighton) was living at 60 Allerton Rd in 1851
    Edward was bap 30/11/1855 address Allerton Rd

    Conjecture: George was terminally ill, Edward returned to London to see him and his mother knew Edward was unbaptised - so he then was.
     
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  20. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff. Very plausible.
     
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