1870 adoptions?

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by eric kingsley, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Is there a birth record for Harriet in France?
    Harriet’s birth year on census’ ranges from 1860 to 1862. I’m wondering if Amy is Harriet, she was born in France but not registered until the family returned to St Petersburg
     
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  2. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Their records are freely available here, I couldn't find anything on FMP and don't have a World sub on Anc.
    Code:
    http://archives.paris.fr/
     
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  3. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    It's possible. Harriet Bridges Crichton (Bridges is Bridget according to her probate form) is part of a tree on Anc. Her date of birth is given as 01/08/1862 Paris, France, the sources of her birth place are all UK censuses however, nothing French mentioned. Also in the 1911 Census form Harriet is living with Agnes (aged 80) and Alexander (54) at 67 Harbord Street in Fulham. Agnes told the enumerator she had had 11 live births of which 6 were living and 5 had died. I can only see records of 9 births, maybe 2 didn't even live long enough to be registered/baptised anywhere. It could be that Amy only lived long enough to be baptised in St Petersburg.
     
  4. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    I have found a book - The Victorian Clown by Jacky Bratton and Ann Featherstone. The CUP index mentions an Edward Edwards clown a few times.
    I have no idea if this is our man or not (as the name is wrong), and if it is whether the mentions are of any significance.
    Eric - you did mention a book in a much earlier post I now remember. Was it this one?
     
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  5. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, that sounds like the kind of book that Edwin Edwards should be in. We have had 3 books mentioned in the thread as far as I can see -
    1)"Black Victorians/Black Victoriana" by Gretchen Gerzina (discusses Pablo Fanque amongst others)
    2)"The Acrobat : Arthur Barnes and the Victorian Circus" by John Stewart (about the famous somersaulter - mentions Edward Barnes Crichton fleetingly)
    3)"A History Of The Circus" by George Speaight (general history of the circus and its forebears)
    so I'll add this one to the list. Not a bad bibliography actually. Perhaps we could offer to run an MA on the History of the British Victorian Circus. It sounds as if it was about 100 times more entertaining than anything on offer to the general public today. This new book doesn't seem to be available as an e-book. Do you have access to a copy?
    The preface only, including chapter headings, can be read for free on line. The book is based on the recollections of 2 clowns - Thomas Lawrence and James Frowde -
    Code:
    http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/16663/frontmatter/9780521816663_frontmatter.pdf
    I couldn't see any references to Edward Edwards or Edwin Edwards in the section of the book I could see. Our clown, Edwin Edwards had a fairly narrow performing life, about 1852 -1864, with a couple of years on either side, judging from the newspaper coverage. Maybe there was another clown called Edward Edwards. It's possible. Or maybe it was someone mixing together the names "Edward Barnes Crichton" and "Edwin Edwards". Quite easy to confuse them I suppose.
     
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  6. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    I did wonder whether John Stewart of Arthur Barnes authorship
    may have gathered further information on Edward B Crichton/
    Edwin Edwards during the research for his book. I have found his
    address and 'phone number if you wanted it.
     
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  7. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there's much point burt. The fleeting reference to Edward Barnes Crichton reads as follows "When Harry Connor drew up his will, on July 23, 1867, he named Arthur Barnes of Lawley Hill, near Birmingham, as one of his trustees. We might assume this to be the Acrobat, but it may not be. The other trustee was one Edward Barnes Crichton, of London, absolutely no connection to the Acrobat. In 1878, Harry Connor amended these two gents out of the will. The Lawley Hill in question must be the one near Wellington in Shropshire. This remains incomprehensible." Stewart doesn't have a clue who Edward Barnes Crichton is as far as I can see.
     
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  8. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Well, I found a reference to Edward Edwards in the Newspaper Archive. It's from the Sun (London) 30th December 1852

    "ROYAL OLYMPIC THEATRE - Lessee and Manager, Mr. Farren - THIS EVENING, Dec. 30, will be presented ABELARD AND HELOISE. After which a new Grand Comic Christmas Pantomime, entitled ROMEO AND JULIET; or, Harlequin Queen Mab and the World of Dreams. Harlequin, Mr. Forest; Columbine, Miss Marie Charles; Sprite, Mr. G, Thompson; Pantaloon, Mr. Tanner; Clown, Mr. Edward Edwards, who will introduce his wonderful dogs. Box-office open from Eleven till Five, under the superintendence of Mr. Edward Chatterton."

    I think this is Edward Barnes Crichton experimenting with another stage name. He didn't go on his 12 year European tour until the following year. Maybe he was still developing his act at this time. I think it's him. I found another notice where he was calling himself "Edwin F Edwards". I think they're all the same person.
     
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  9. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Some of the information in the Victorian Clown book seems to have come from the memoirs of James Frowde who also joined a circus.
    This information about James doesn't mention Edward but is an interesting insight into the circus life. James may well have known Edward.

    Code:
    https://gloshistory.org.uk
    › re...PDF
    THE LOST AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF JAMES HENRY FROWDE By John M. Tllrner

    Ed The link doesn't do what I thought it would..... just google the title and you should get there
     
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  10. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    The pages of the Victorian Clown mentioning Edward Edwards are 101, 127, 130 n. 210
    but I can't get to any of those on google books.
     
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  11. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    The authors of "The Victorian Clown" credit John M Turner, now deceased, who managed the National Fairground and Circus Archive (NFCA) at the University of Sheffield. It seems possible that if there is a definitive link anywhere in the UK between Edward Barnes Crichton and Edwin Edwards/Edwin F Edwards/Edward Edwards it could be in the NFCA ,or, of course, in material held privately by Crichton's descendants. I have emailed the NFCA to enquire.
     
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  12. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Good idea. And it looks as though the NFCA hold the John Turner Collection - looks like many box files of circus stuff. That could be a fun day out!
     
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  13. Tracey Itta

    Tracey Itta New Member

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    I'm decended from his daughter
    Louisa Carpenter Crichton
    BIRTH 1FEB 1854 • Breslau, Prussia
    DEATH 1MAR 1895 • Greater London, London, Middlesex, United Kingdom
    He performed at the Cirque d'Hiver in Paris, it is still operating and is the oldest circus in the world. They have a museum.
    I will be going there in the beginning of Jan.
    If I find out any information I will post it here.

    I have photos of his grandson and there is a strong resemblance to the clown photo
     
  14. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you found the thread. Have a great time in Paris. It sounds like Edward had a fascinating life. Have you got any documentation that makes it clear that the Clown who performed as Edwin Edwards, Edwin F Edwards and Edward Edwards at different times in the 1850/60s was Edward Barnes Crichton in real life? I was thinking about letters, posters, newspaper cuttings etc. We think they're the same person but haven't had any luck finding corroborating evidence. Thanks for posting @Tracey Itta
     
  15. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I got a nice reply from the V&A -
    I've made enquiries about the book (The Victorian Clown by Jacky Bratton) that Grizel found that seems to mention Edward Edwards a few times. It is still in print. It is also available in the reading room at the National Fairground and Circus Archive (NFCA) at the University of Sheffield.
    Second-hand copies of the book seem to go for about £35, too pricey. The return rail fare to Sheffield is too expensive really to justify looking at one book. The rest of their collection isn't searchable electonically and it would mean sifting through things by hand trying to spot the relevant names. As a cheap and manageable alternative I've also asked my local library if they could find it through the Inter-Library Loans Service. I'm not hopeful as it is decidedly "niche". I propose to give the person who replied from the V&A the URL for this thread as everything we've got is here basically. If anyone has any other ideas let me know.
     
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  16. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, when the archivist says "It really does sound as if you have done some painstaking original research" she's using you-plural. I made it clear in my question to the V&A that this was a group effort. I wouldn't have got anywhere at all with this without other peoples' insights/expertise etc. I also thought I'd ask her if the V&A would be willing to contact the Richard Avedon Foundation to ask if they would confirm the nature of the handwritten text on the mount of the picture of Edwin Edwards. I never got a reply but they might reply to the V&A. It is quite possible that Avedon's personal collection has been sold of course.
     
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  17. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    So are you in collusion re the article published in the Hackney Gazette
    on 2nd January this year?
     
  18. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    I do see that you were involved now. This was a very good idea.
    The problem I see is that those family members who have so far
    emerged are descended of the daughter Louisa Carpenter Crichton,
    who died quite young and therefore most probably did not pass on
    the information about her father as a result. The actress daughter,
    was it Emma, appears to have married but I cannot see any children.
    Perhaps we should attempt to trace descendants of the other children
    (if they don't appear as a result of the newspaper article) to see whether a knowledge has come down to them?
     
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  19. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I asked not be named burt, just the Forum, but there you go. It's not my real name anyway. The lady mentioned is a descendant who is writing a book about Crichton I believe. This is a public thread so I think it's safe to assume that quite a few people who are related or simply interested for their own reasons are reading it and using the data.

    It's very nice story in Hackney terms where bad news is all too common. He was a local lad who made good, very good in fact. Is he worth a Blue Plaque? Possibly. Why not? If people haven't read the story yet then google "hackney gazette acrobat clown" and it's the first item.

    Personally I'm more interested in providing the V&A with information that allows them to use their national institutional status to try to get some more information from institutions in other countries. It's awkward that he seems to have used at least 3 different stage names - Edwin Edwards, Edwin F Edwards and Edward Edwards. I honestly do not think anyone has got a document that identifies Crichton as the Clown, yet.
     
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  20. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    My great great grandmother Grace Crichton married William Henry Scott where and when I do not know. Their son my great grandfather, also William Henry Scott was supposedly born at Barrhead, Scotland about 1836. It is not known when, but he migrated to New Zealand and in 1869 married Agnes Kinnaird.
    It was through this research that I found a marriage which was celebrated at the home of my great grandparents for Alexander Crichton, born in Russia, son of Edward Barnes Crichton. He married Miriam Waters. The witnesses at the marriage were William H. Scott, woolclasser, Dunedin and Christina Scott of the same address, being my great grandfather and my aunt.
    From this I felt Grace Crichton (my gg) could possibly be a sister of Edward Barnes Crichton, if not, then definitely a relation. I tried researching the EBC line as I hoped that would show a connection, and to date I have not had any success.
    I am hoping someone may have some ideas to help me further my research.
     

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