1870 adoptions?

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by eric kingsley, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    That's very interesting. Are you willing to say what evidence you have for Grace marrying William and the birth of their son? Or that Alexander married Miriam? It might help us make a connection.
     
  2. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Hello Victoria and welcome. We have all enjoyed researching this family!

    From nz bdm I can see that an Alexander Crichton married a Miriam Tompkins Wyatt in 1889. I assume you have seen the marriage cert to have Edward Barnes Crichton as father.
    Children of Alexander and Miriam seem to be Edward Alexander, Elsie Agnes and Gladys Nell.
    In 1911 we already have on this thread Alexander in Fulham England with his mother and sister Harriet. FS also have Miriam and her daughters in Fulham at a different address in 1911 so the family seem to have been visiting England.
    I think those three remained in England (or returned here) as there are possible marriages and deaths on free bmd.
    Alexander seems to have poss died in NZ , buried in Northern cemetery Dunedin with Edward Alexander and an unnamed baby.

    However I can't yet see anything online of Grace Crichton and William Henry Scott or a birth of the young William Henry in Barrhead Scotland. Do you have some evidence of this Victoria?

    Also we found in this thread that Edward Barnes Crichton's father was from Norfolk not Scotland. Of course Crichton is a common name in Scotland and the Norfolk branch could easily have migrated there. But as yet I can't see a link between Grace C and Edward Barnes C, sorry.
    The Crichton link could just be a coincidence I suppose . Are there any links between Miriam's family and the Scotts I wonder.
    And did other marriages take place at this house? Lots of questions....
     
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  3. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    Eric, Unfortunately the only evidence I have for the parents of my great grandfather is from his death certificate. William Henry Scott died in Victoria, Australia on July 5th 1904 at the age of 68 years, occupation Woolclasser. His parents are listed as Wiliam Henry Scott, Officer in the Army and Grace Scott formerly Crighton. He was born at Barrhead Scotland, lived in New Zealand for 20 years and Victoria 13 years. Married at Palmerston New Zealand to Agnes Kinnaird. His children were listed as Christina 31, William 28 and Agnes dead.
    Victoria's certificates give wonderful information as you can see, but of course are only as good as the informant.
    I have a copy of their marriage on 20 December 1869 but that gives very little information other than they were both single and William a Fellmonger and witnesses John Tait and Jane O'Neill.
    I have birth certificates for their son William Christopher Kinnaird which does not give any further details and the birth cetificate for youngest daughter Agnes in 1876 records Agnes born at Fifeshire Scotland and William at Ayrshire Scotland.
     
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  4. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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  5. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    Hello Grizel,Thank you for posting, and I do have all this information.
    I have the records from the Dunedin, New Zealand Presbyterian Church Marriage Registers relating to the marriage of Alexander and Miriam.

    I don't believe the Crichton link is a coincidence, and this was a once off marriage held at the home of my great grandparents. Also no connections to the family of Miriam.

    Grace was not necessarily born in Scotland, I feel that with WHS senior being in the Army, he could have met her in other parts of England, married and returned to Scotland for the birth of son William. Of course this is all supposition. And yes there are lots of questions and hopefully some answers.
     
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  6. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    Victoria, thank you for all the extra information, esp concerning William and Grace, which could be very useful indeed. I do hope we can find tha Crichton connection!
     
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  7. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    That's very specific Victoria. Is the church named? I looked at Findmypast, Ancestry.co.uk and ScotlandsPeople and could see nothing on-line about this marriage (assuming they married with these names). That doesn't mean it didn't happen of course, more likely that for some reason or other it hasn't been caught up in any of the databases that these web sites use.
    It seems definite that Alexander married Miriam in New Zealand then. Thanks for helping with that. On his visit to Fulham in the UK in 1911 when Alexander was caught in the census his Mother told the enumerator he was an "Admiral". I've always doubted this (she was 80 at the time) and I couldn't find any record of Admiral Crichton in British Navy records such as they are. I wonder if he was an Admiral in the navy of New Zealand? According to the Wiki page for NZ the colony only became self-governing in 1856, maybe that's when their navy was established.
    You consider the possibility that Grace might have been EBC's sister. As Grizel mentions we couldn't find anything to suggest that EBC's father was from Scotland. burt found EBC's parent's marriage certificate so maybe you could use this information to find their children? I don't think they had many. His father, John Edward Barnes Creighton/Crichton died relatively young. We know of one brother, George, who died aged 30 as MollyMay pointed out. Maybe you could use the parents' details to see if they had a daughter. The connection to Scottish Crichton's might be 100 years earlier when records were scarce.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  8. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    The occupation box for Alexander in 1911 looks more like 'Casual' to me.
    There was an Alexander that was an Admiral of course but at the moment
    we see no connection.
     
  9. Grizel

    Grizel Well-Known Member

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    In the 1881 census Alexander was a seaman.
     
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  10. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that burt, a bit of a demotion from Admiral. What does it mean? "Casual labourer" I presume. Maybe he took on general work after his career as a seaman?
     
  11. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    Well, I don't know. His wife Miriam has an interesting occupation as an
    'Historical Costumer' and one daughter as a artist - painter in Pageants.
    The problem with Grace being a brother of Edward Barnes Crichton is that
    his parents married in 1822 as bachelor and spinster. Grace would only at
    best be 14 years old in 1836! I investigated whether she was born before
    the marriage to Sarah Farmery, but could not see a candidate.
     
  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Perhaps grandma was watching the movie at the time....The Admirable Crichton.:)
     
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  13. eric kingsley

    eric kingsley Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I don't think the generations work properly. No harm in looking for other children born to John and Sarah though. That first letter in Alexander's occupation in the 1911 census at Harbord Street does look more like a C than an A. I guess he could have been a merchant seaman, his father doesn't give his rank in the 1881 census, working your way to New Zealand on a ship would be one of the few ways to actually get there in the 1880s.
    The maximum age for sailors was quite low I seem to remember, because other people's lives might depend on you being able-bodied and reasonably fit. At the moment you can't join the Royal Navy if you are over 39. Maybe Alexander had to give up his job as a seaman because he got too old.
     
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  14. burt

    burt Where there's a will there's a way!

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    The other possibility I suppose is that Grace may have been a sister of
    Edward Barnes Crichton's father, Edward John Barnes Crichton (or John Edward).
    At some point one would suppose there would be a Scottish connection, and
    it is possible that the family in London still retained links north of the border.
     
  15. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Just returning to the Alexander Crichton death mentioned by Grizle and buried in Dunedin. I’m not sure it is Victoria’s Alexander as the death list is....
    1892 Edward Alexander 2 years, this is the son of Alexander and Miriam.
    ALEXANDER CRICHTON.
    1926 Alexander Francis 7 weeks
    1914 Alexander 84 years....1830
    1912 Alexander Kenneth 6 hours
    1957 Alexander Williamson 70 years....1887
    1955 Alexander 71 years....1886
    Victoria’s Alexander Crichton was 26 when he married Miriam in 1889 giving him a birth year of c1863. Miriam was 17.
    According to Papers Past, the Alexander Crichton who died in 1914 was living with his son in law Daniel Jones, and daughter was Jeanie Adamson Crichton.
    Just found the death in 1920 of Alexander Crichton age 63....1857 buried with the babies. So yes this could be him although the age is out a bit. My apologies. :oops:
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    CRICHTON: At the Dunedin Hospital on June 8th 1920, Alexander Crichton , THEATRE ATTENDANT aged 63 years . Deep,y regretted
    Otago Daily Times 10 June 1920...Papers Past.
    The theatre attendant gives it away...:)
    A long, long way from an admiral.:D
     
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  17. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    The Evening Post 1st June 1905
    At Dunedin, Alexander Crichton was working as a door attendant for the Premiers meeting at the Princess Theatre. He was struck in the face,
    performing his duties after an altercation with William Alexander causing a black eye and knocking his head so badly he was taken to hospital the next day having taken a fit.
    So even back in 1905 Alexander was working as a theatre attendant.
     
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  18. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    Eric, the marriage I referred to was that of William Henry Scott Jnr and Agnes Kinnaird. I do not have any details for the marriage of WHS senior and Grace Crichton (I wish I did). Although WHS Jnr was born in Scotland does not necessarily mean that his parents married there, or in fact that either his father or mother (Grace) were born there.
    I have checked the marriage of John Edward Barnes Crichton and Sarah Farmery and researched their children without finding a daughter born to them.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    On looking at my notes it is more than likely that Grace could be a sister of John Edward Barnes Crichton who was born in 1806.....the dates tie in with her having a child in 1836/1837. I would dearly love to find a marriage between Grace and WHS as this is a dead end for me in my research, and it is possible they had other children besides WHS jnr. I just feel there is a connection here !!!!
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria New Member

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    Alexander Crichton was definitely not an Admiral, but a seaman, and the wording on the 1881 census is "Casual".
    Alexander returned to New Zealand whilst his family remained in the UK.
    Yes, the article relating to the theatre was him and he died in 1920 at Dunedin and was buried with his 2 baby sons.
     

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