Handwriting: John or Thos?

Discussion in 'Ask The Experts' started by Stafford, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    I haven't found a possible death for John in Cheshire, however this looks likely for Thomas.

    Thomas Leonard age 78, Dec qrt 1906, Congleton 8a/203.
     
  2. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    A possible for John in 1881...... RG11/Piece3394/Folio107/Page21

    92 Liversage St, Derby, boarder, married, 49yrs, Silk Spinner.
     
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  3. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    1888 -1889 Electoral Roll has a John Leonard living 2 Spragg Street, Congleton. 1889 - 1890 at 15 Spindle Street, qualifying property 2 Spragg Street.
    The John living in Congleton seems to disappear and another appears living in Northwich.
    Unfortunately, it says there is an error with the original image and I cannot see the address. I can see the 1900 image which is at 5 Cawley's Place, Northwich.

    There is a John Leonard born 1855 in Cheshire Workhouse. Religion RC admitted from Northwich.
    3 Nov and Sept 22 - Sept 29 and Mar 14 - 23 1897
     
  4. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    A John Leonard (age 72yrs) death was registered in Derby Sept qrt 1900, 7b/345
     
  5. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    These records seem more likely, Mutters, than the John in Derby.
     
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  6. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    A possible for Thomas in 1901........RG13/3353/42/4.

    He's in the Workhouse, age given 74, born Ireland.
     
  7. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    No help with the Electoral addresses in the 1891 census. :(
    There are Davenports living at 33 Spindle Street though. A widowed Louisa with daughters and granddaughters. RG12 piece 2844 folio 91 page 21

    The Dale family at number 15.
    2 Spragg Street has, I think the Bames. Lots of empty property to let.


    It is Cawby's Place and the Leonard family is a John born 1866 in Ireland and his wife Barbara also born Ireland. Their children are James, Mary, Kate, Henry, Johnny and Willy. RG13/3342/78/40

    I think this probably means we can eliminate the Northwich John Leonard.
     
  8. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    I've totally lost where we are. :(
    When you've sorted through it Stafford, please can you tell us what you are still missing? I think we have been chasing two unrelated John Leonards so it might take a bit of working out.
     
  9. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    Ancestry has a private member tree for an Agnes Lavinia Davenport with 9 attached records, 9 sources, 1 attached photo and 845 people in it.
     
  10. Mealymoo

    Mealymoo A Busy Lizzy

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    George Henry Foden, baptised at St Stephen Congleton, 12th Feb 1871.

    Mother: Phebe [sic] Foden
     
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  11. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Definitely possible. Hannah was in the infirmary in 1881 in St Peter's Derby. Age, occupation and marital status point to this being John Leonard senior. I had hoped to confirm his place of birth. So far I have 1851 - Ireland, 1861 - Congleton, 1881 - Derby.
    . I have another John Leonard b. Ireland circa 1823 who was a silk worker living in Congleton. I think you may have found him as well. Good old pen and paper should help me sort it out. I'm still searching for the 1871 census for John and his family. Hopefully this will confirm his place of birth. Ultimately, I'm hoping to find a connection that confirms John was related to my GGGgrandmother. So far all I have is circumstantial evidence. My GGGgrandmother is very elusive, I had significant help trying to find her on another forum.
     
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  12. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Mealymoo, I hadn't found the death record for John. I've considered both records for Thomas. Their ages are extremely interesting. So far Thomas and John's ages have been fairly consistent on the census records so I'd popped the records for Thomas in my shoebox. If the ages given on their death certificates are as stated then the link between my GGGgrandmother and Thomas and John becomes a distinct possibility. If indeed the records belong to them.

    Again, I need to find Thomas and John in 1891.
     
  13. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    John-1871, might he have gone home to Ireland to visit Family or whatever? Likewise Thomas for his own reasons in 1891. Even a nearby County for work?
     
  14. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    The Nantwich John Leonard is Thomas's son b. abt 1854. He was a fustian cutter. He was living in Nantwich in 1881. I still have to work out the electoral rolls.

    Northwich or Nantwich?
     
  15. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Anything is possible Wendy. I believe the fares from Ireland to England were very cheap and many Irish people crossed the Irish Sea seeking seasonal work. Trouble is my Leonards always seem to be one foot away from the workhouse. Many spent time in the workhouse as the call for silk workers decreased. I doubt they would have travelled back to Ireland after so many years.

    I can imagine they crossed counties for work. John was always travelling between Congleton and Derby where his wife was born. Thomas and his wife Ann may have moved to find work. This is one of the issues I have with the Leonard family members born in Ireland. There are too many giving there name as Thomas, Mary, Ann, John or Catherine Leonard b. Ireland. Most are working in the clothing/silk industry. It's like searching for a Smith or Jones who state they were born in England! It's neigh impossible to sort them out!
     
  16. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear, I am confused. I have the 1911 Northwich Workhouse census and there is a John Leonard b. Northwich. Is he mine or not? In 1891 he was living with his brothers James and William in Oldham Lancashire. William was living in a Model Lodging House in a later census. I believe these were part of the Workhouse system.
     
  17. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    In 1901 John Leonard a fustian cutter is living in the Model Lodging House, Grimshaw Street, Oldham with his brother William. His place of birth was given as Manchester instead of Congleton. No wonder I couldn't find him.
     
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  18. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Right, we'll stay & watch, you're going great guns just now.
     
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  19. Mutters

    Mutters I am not bossy, I just have better ideas.

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    On Google Maps I can see a Northwich, a Middlewich and a Nantwich. I am sure the ones I found were in Northwich. Sure does not help when also searching for Leonard, Lennard, Lennord, Lenord, Leornord etc. ;)
     
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  20. Stafford

    Stafford Well-Known Member

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    I think I may have jinxed myself. I may have a Leonard who became a Smith and now I can't find her. :oops:
     
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