No Show on 1939 register

Just found this: 1851 Census HO107/1703/214/4
Robert Epon (Capon) Guy, 23 b.1828 Ashbourne Derbyshire
Church Street, Edmonton, Middlesex, England
Police constable
Mary Guy 25 b.1826 Naples
Robert Guy 9 b. 1842 London Middlesex HO107/1703/214/5
William Guy 2 MOS b. 1851 London Middlesex HO107/1703/214/5

Not really relevant but, Who names their son after a doctored cockerel o_O
Roger
 
Now I am getting confused (not difficult)
If the Amelia with William and John that @AnnB found is 'our' family, the boy's ages are totally wrong.
On th 1871 census the three of them are in the workhouse - Cornwallis Road, Upper Holloway RG10/308/89/16
Amelia age 28 widow, William 10, John 6 (on the original 'her children' is written for the boys), with something family by the names*
William cannot be 10 if he was born in the 1850's (either 53 or 57/8) his first child is born 1875c
I found a birth reg for John in 1861 making him 10 in 1871
Something is just not right :eek:
*1781106068295.webp
 
Anc keeps giving me this hint to Amelia in 1861 - 1 Fox and Knox Court, St Sepulchre, City of London RG09/216/41/34
Amelia A Seal b1837 St James, Middlesex - mar - dressmaker
William Seal b1858 St Bartholomews - son

These dobs/ages make sense
 
Have found a marriage for an Amelia Seal, B.1839,
Penshurst, St John the Baptist, Spouse,
Marriage date 05 May 1862
Father Thomas Seal,
Spouse David Wells, b. 1840,
First witness William Wells
Second witness Mary Ann Seal
Kent History & Library Centre P287/1/D/3
Register type Marriages
 
Smokey said:
Have found a marriage for an Amelia Seal, B.1839,
Penshurst, St John the Baptist, Spouse,
Marriage date 05 May 1862
Father Thomas Seal,
Spouse David Wells, b. 1840,
First witness William Wells
Second witness Mary Ann Seal
Kent History & Library Centre P287/1/D/3
Register type Marriages
Click to expand...
This Amelia can be found in Sevenoaks in 1861 (surname Seale) born Hever Kent and working as a house servant - RG09/488/48/22 :(
 
MollyMay said:
This Amelia can be found in Sevenoaks in 1861 (surname Seale) born Hever Kent and working as a house servant - RG09/488/48/22 :(
Click to expand...
MollyMay said:
Anc keeps giving me this hint to Amelia in 1861 - 1 Fox and Knox Court, St Sepulchre, City of London RG09/216/41/34
Amelia A Seal b1837 St James, Middlesex - mar - dressmaker
William Seal b1858 St Bartholomews - son

These dobs/ages make sense
Click to expand...
I think this London one that you found is possibly the one to follow, still working through the options & trying to winnow out the chaff :)
 
Chimp said:
1881 census 6, Swan Yard, Islington

William King, Head, Married, 1853, City of London, Middlesex, England
Mary King, Wife, Married, 1853, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Amelia King, Daughter, 1875, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Mary King, Daughter, 1878, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Matilda King, Daughter, Single, 1881, Middlesex, England
Amelia Seal, Mother, Widow, 1838, City of London, Middlesex, England
John Seal, Brother, Single, 1862, City of London, Middlesex, England
Ernest Grey, Brother in law, Single, 1857, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Click to expand...
Smokey said:
I also found this:

1891 Census 5, Broad Yard, Islington

William H King 1857
Mary C King 1853
Amelia A King 1876
Mary C King 1878
Matilda M King 1881
Esther E King 1887
Constance M King 1889
Lily B King 1891
Amelia A (Mother) King 1841

All the children have Mmn of Guy
If it is any help :)
Roger
Click to expand...
Is there a condition called Genealogy Block? ;) I have belatedly just realised that Williams mother Amelia is a Seal in 1881 and a King in 1891, with a distinct lack of recorded marriages between a King & Seal and equally between a King & Guy or variations of the names. As Molly says in post 22 "Something is just not right" also, am I right to assume these 2 families are the same family 10 yrs apart? or have I discovered a Genealogical Black Hole?
 
Not sure if you have this but it seems Mary Clara or Mary C Guy is found as a scullery maid in 1871 working for the Sisters of Mercy, St Andrew Holborn. Also seems she didn’t learn much in their employ as no marriage is showing up. But at least it gives a window of 4 years in case one turns up under another surname.
 
Perhaps we need a bit of a resume on this post as it has spread far and wide.
The original post was to find the Axam family in 1939, which was successful
We also discovered Matilda Margaret King married Samuel George Axam, although there is still an outstanding problem as to why Samuel appears as Arthur on some records

Leaving that dilemma we discovered Matilda Margaret's mother was Mary Guy - all her siblings are also registered with the mmn Guy father William King but no marriage King/Guy has been found, so for now we have to assume there was no marriage.

From that point we tried to ascertain who William King's family are, as no credible birth reg has been found.

On the 1881 census living with William King and family is Amelia Seal (mother) wid b1838 city of London, John Seal brother b1862 City of London.
William also gives City of London as his pob in 1853
On the 1891 census Amelia A King b1841 (mother) wid is living with William (now b1857 with a middle initial of H) both have a pob as London City
What happened to John Seal b1862 - I cannot find him in 1891
1871 sees Amelia and sons (William and John) in and out of the workhouse including the census, but the ages for the children are awry William 10 (should be 14/15) John 4 (should be 9/10)
1861 Amelia A Seal mar b1837 St James and son William b1858 St Bartholomew

So many unanswered questions -
Birth reg for William (possibly H) King or Seal 1853 or 1857 - 1857 fits the child of Amelia Seal but would make him just 18 when his first child is born (perhaps the reason for the lack of marriage to Mary Guy), no bap found either, nor for John Seal.
Is the Amelia with sons William and John in the workhouse in 1871 this family?
Who is Amelia A Seal/King no marriages found? Where is she in 1851 and before?
Where is John Seal b1862c after 1881?
 
MollyMay found this for me yesterday,
20/11/1861 John Seal boy. James Seal Journeyman Plumber. Susan Seal formerly Wing (King?). mother made her mark. Reg 27/12/1861
Address 5 Little Camesa? Place
Subsequently I found,
James Steel married one of these people 1851 Sculcoates, Yorkshire, England
Jane Beharrill, Ann Branton, Mary Simpson White, Amelia King
I'm looking at Steel (Seal ?) & Amelia King.
Could there be a connection to the above? possibly not but nothing ventured nothing gained
Thank you Molly for the resume :)
Roger
 
Last edited:
Could this be the Susan/Susannah connection we've been looking for?


County
Kent

Place
Woolwich

Church name
St Mary Magdalene

Register type
Parish Register

Register entry number
986

Birth date
03 Jan 1841

Baptism date
20 Jan 1841

Person forename
Susannah Amelia

Person sex
F

Father forename
William

Mother forename
Susan

Father surname
KING

Mother surname

Person abode
Henry Street

Father occupation
Labourer

Notes

Suffix

Transcribed by
Stephen Galpin

File line number
986

Roger
 
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