Handwriting translation needed, please

Shur F de Sabe :-
Looking at the place names on the same page the letter 'L' in London and L'pool look remarkably like the the first letter in the Christian and surname
giving - Lhur F de Labe :eek:

The letter 'S' is different as in Eliza Savoury (I agree) and James Smith further down the page.
 
MollyMay said:
Shur F de Sabe :-
Looking at the place names on the same page the letter 'L' in London and L'pool look remarkably like the the first letter in the Christian and surname
giving - Lhur F de Labe :eek:

The letter 'S' is different as in Eliza Savoury (I agree) and James Smith further down the page.
Click to expand...

MollyMay
I don't know which alternative is worse :(, actually I do as I considered both and then 'settled' on Ss rather than Ls
Frankly I don't believe in either of them:eek: -- but in terms of transcribing maybe Ls are more accurate ...?
 
I lied :( there were problems on the other page too (I forgot because I had a nap:rolleyes:)
LNDRG11_301_304-0904more probs.jpg

I have:
Jane PHILLLIPS 73 York
Eliza A MARANAI[?] 74 London
Hannah TARRANT 57 Bristol
Mary MORAN 58[55?] Ireland
Elizb. PIRAYSEY 82 America

I might agree with the Ancestry/FamilySearch transcription on two of them :oops:

This really is the last for today because I think I am going to sleep now ...

Tomorrow I'm off to another cemetery, so I better not come home with a project ...:eek:
 
Perhaps Shur F de Labe is a compromise (Looking at the S in Sarah, which is different to the S in Smith!). Needless to say I cannot find anything anywhere that could explain just who she is or what her name really is:(
 
mugwortismy cat said:
View attachment 571

I have:
Emma THORP Lady age: 68 Stoke Newington, Middx
Emily McSHANE Head 69 Middx
Helen CONTENAU? Boarder 65 Middx
Shur[?] F de SABE " 25 france
Sarah MOLESWORTH 67 Brompton, Kent
Click to expand...

Here's my twopennuth:

(I can never find censuses from reference nos, so am working on your sample alone)

The French lady: Methinks it's an S. (Compare with Sarah and Lady).
So de Sabe? de Sale? de Salle?
What's her occupation - is she a nun? I wonder whether Shur is how the Enumerator has written Soeur (Sister).
Or Cher (although I've never heard it as a French first name - only the US singer)

Jane
 
kernowmaid said:
Here's my twopennuth:

(I can never find censuses from reference nos, so am working on your sample alone)

The French lady: Methinks it's an S. (Compare with Sarah and Lady).
So de Sabe? de Sale? de Salle?
What's her occupation - is she a nun? I wonder whether Shur is how the Enumerator has written Soeur (Sister).
Or Cher (although I've never heard it as a French first name - only the US singer)

Jane
Click to expand...

thanks Jane :)

I had the same thought(s) re Cher

I have found De Sabe/DeSabe as a surname but appears to be of Spanish [&/or Portuguese] origin

Sorry, I should have put her occupation in, she is a nurse, which certainly does not preclude her being a nun ;)

I will try out your suggestions and see if it gets me anywhere ...

[just found a Sister Francis de Sale -- but she is Canadian and would only have been 10 at this time! Also a Sister Francis de Sales born Germany in 1911 --- perhaps it is a name commonly given to nuns of a certain order --- methinks I have vaguely heard of a Francis de Sale(s)]
 
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Here he is ...
US_M_NN_SFS112.jpg


I am now of the opinion that she is a Sister/Souer Francis de Sale(s) ... though of course I may be wrong ...
 
Huncamunca said:
Yes, that's all it is, no dark arts, just practice! The more PCC wills you see, the more you get used to that horrible writing. Also the same old phrases crop up again and again, and if you can spot these it can be a good way in to cracking the code.

It may help to make a little chart showing how the clerk writes each letter of the alphabet, upper case and lower case, from words that you are able to read, to help you decipher the problematic words. Here is in an example of such an alphabet from a somewhat earlier PCC will used in The National Archives' palaeography tutorial:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/palaeography/doc2_popup/alphabet.htm

Good luck! If you get stuck, do shout.
Click to expand...

I have made a start:

This is the last last Will and Testament
of me Thomas Schreiber heretofore of Tewin in the County of Hertford but now of
Saint Helier in the Island of Jersey Esquire That is to say in case of my dying in Jersey
I desire to be buried at Saint B???? near my infant Son but if [?] [?] then
in the [?Cemetery] hard nearest to which that event shall take place with as little
alarm as possible My beloved Wife will I am confident be inclined to pay all
my just debts as far as her means will admit but I wish her in no event to bind
herself so to do and whereas under or by virtue of the last Will & Testament of my late
Father John Charles Schreiber Esqr. bearing date on or about the twenty third day
of April one thousand [?seven] hundred and ninety five certain trustees therein
named stand seized and possessed of several Messuages or Tenements with the
Lands and Heredits thereunto [?imputively] belonging initiate and being at four
[?] Will otherwise Forty Will in the parish of ?ifield in the County of Middlesex
& also the sum of fifteen thousand pounds consolidated ??????????????????????
to the use of or in trust for myself and any Widow I may leave during our [?]
lives and afterwards to the use of or in trust for all or any or more of my
children for such Estates and Interests and in such shares & proportions manner

I am not as confident as I may look in many parts of this nor do I understand most of it after Lands :rolleyes:
It corresponds to this portion of the Will (there's quite a bit more, but my head needs a rest) -- I had to reduce it quite a lot to upload but it can be seen on Ancestry
Schreiber Will pt1.jpg


[edit: I am now thinking that the part I have put in bold is "four Ten Hill otherwise Forty Hill" which I assume is an address?]
 
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You've done a super job, Christel, well done.(+)(^^)(+)

I have filled in a few gaps and tweaked it a little here and there (bold text):

This is the last last Will and Testament
of me Thomas Schreiber heretofore of Tewin in the County of Hertford but now of
Saint Helier in the Island of Jersey Esquire That is to say in case of my dying in Jersey
I desire to be buried at Saint Brelardes[?] near my infant Son but if elsewhere then
in the Church yard nearest to which that event shall take place with as little
expence as possible My beloved Wife will I am confident be inclined to pay all
my just debts as far as her means will admit but I wish her in no event to bind
herself so to do and whereas under or by virtue of the last Will & Testament of my late
Father John Charles Schreiber Esqr. bearing date on or about the twenty third day
of April one thousand seven hundred and ninety five certain trustees therein
named stand seized and possessed of several Messuages or Tenements with the
Lands and Heredits thereunto respectively belonging situate and being at four
The Hill otherwise Forty Hill in the parish of Enfield in the County of Middlesex
& also the sum of fifteen thousand pounds consolidated three per Cent Bank annuities
to the use of or in trust for myself and any Widow I may leave during our respective
lives and afterwards to the use of or in trust for all or any or more of my
Children for such Estates and Interests and in such shares & proportions manner
 
Thank you Huncamunca :)

I have adjusted my text file according to your suggestions. I knew that "seven" had to be seven as that was the only number that made sense in that date, but I still can't see it as seven -- yet ... I will practice doing so ;)

Also regarding the saint's name I was sure I just had to recall the right church and I would be able to work it out ... except I was thinking of parishes on the Isle of Man, rather than Jersey so I didn't get anywhere :confused:

I shall come back later with more I am sure (because my cemetery trip has been postponed :( and I have no other plans except for transcribing old documents :oops:)
 
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